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As he tours the state selling his plan to eliminate Mississippi’s individual income tax and increase sales taxes, House Speaker Philip Gunn utters a common refrain: “No one has really been able to tell me why from a policy standpoint it’s a bad idea … From a policy standpoint, no one’s been able to poke a hole in it.”

But leaders and groups across the political spectrum have poked holes in or raised concerns about his plan. And those holes and concerns have been based primarily on policy — the particulars of Gunn’s proposal, not politics.

Advocates for poor and moderate income Mississippians say the plan would unfairly shift more of the state’s tax burden onto them. Ditto for retirees.

Big business interests such as manufacturers fear the sales tax increases in the plan would increase their “input” costs drastically down their supply chains. Small businesses fear this, too.

Some of Gunn’s fellow Republican lawmakers fear the sea change in tax structure would tank the state budget. Democratic lawmakers fear this, too.

Farmers, teachers, business leaders, conservatives, progressives, the lieutenant governor and Senate, the governor — who himself advocates eliminating the income tax but opposes corresponding sales tax increases — have expressed skepticism, if not outright opposition, to Gunn’s proposal. Analyses by state economics experts have been mixed, and even the conservative think tank Gunn credits with the impetus for his proposal has panned some particulars of the plan.

So far, no Mississippi statewide elected leader or major business or policy group has fully endorsed Gunn’s plan, and even those who support the concept do so with caveats, reservations and concerns about its particulars and unintended consequences.

Mississippi’s National Federation of Independent Businesses, which represents the state’s small businesses, briefly endorsed Gunn’s plan when he rolled it out in February. In a statement at the time, NFIB said: “Our members are behind this 100% … Eliminating the personal income tax would provide much-needed financial relief to small business owners struggling to recover from the economic crisis created by the COVID-19 pademic.”

But within a couple weeks, NFIB walked back its endorsement, saying in a new statement: “While our members support the idea of eliminating the state individual income tax, the devil’s in the details, and (the plan) would end up helping some small business owners but raising taxes on specific industries … We will continue to work with legislators … on a final bill that doesn’t pick winners and losers but helps small businesses.”

Economist Art Laffer, an adviser to former President Ronald Reagan, in March endorsed Gunn’s tax plan. But in a subsequent interview with Supertalk Radio, Laffer admitted he had not read the particulars of the plan, and mainly just endorses the idea of personal income tax elimination.

But Gunn says his plan is based upon good “economics 101” principles — “more sound and better tax structure is one based on consumption rather than income tax.” He said the nine U.S. states with no income tax, including Florida, Tennessee and Texas, are economically thriving and attracting more people unlike Mississippi, one of just three states to lose population since 2010.

No state has ever phased out an individual income tax. Alaska, the only state to eliminate an existing income tax, did so in one fell swoop. For Mississippi, the shift would be seismic: Individual income taxes generate about $1.8 billion a year, or 32% of the state’s revenue.

“Those states that don’t have an income tax, they seem to be prospering very well,” Gunn said. “I know other factors come into play — don’t get me wrong, Florida has got Disney World and they’ve got beaches — but it is a factor. You see retirees and young millennials going to those states.”

Gunn’s proposal, the “Mississippi Tax Freedom Act,” would exempt most Mississippians from individual income taxes in its first year, and totally phase out the tax over 10 years or more depending on growth “triggers” being met.

Gunn says that for individuals under his plan, “$1,500 stays in your pocket right off the bat, and for a married couple that is $3,000 that stays in your pocket.”

“In five to seven years, we raise that exemption to $100,000 per taxpayer, $200,000 per couple, and that would be $9,000 that stays in their pockets,” Gunn said. “That’s real tax relief. That will help attract young people, help make them stay or at least give them a reason to stay in Mississippi.”

It would phase out the income tax through exemptions. In the first year, the personal income exemption would increase to $47,700 for individuals, $95,400 for joint filers. This, Gunn said, would mean that 60% of Mississippians would pay no income taxes starting in the first year.

For each year after, exemption increases would be funded by any revenue growth over 1.5%. Gunn said that given historic growth data, this should totally exempt all taxpayers within 10 to 12 years.

“Growth in Mississippi over the last 10 years has averaged 3.2%,” Gunn said.

To offset the revenue lost from the income tax exemptions, Gunn’s plan would increase the state sales tax from 7% to 9.5% on most retail purchases.

Purchases of many big-ticket items currently at less than 7% would also see an increase of 2.5 cents on the dollar. For instance, automobiles, now subject to a 5% sales tax, would see that increase to 7.5%.

The proposal also would raise excise taxes on cigarettes by 50 cents per pack.

But Gunn’s plan would also phase in a cut on sales taxes on groceries from 7% to 3.5% over five years. This is one of Gunn’s major selling points of the plan, and a way to combat complaints of more regressive taxation hurting people with low incomes or retirees who are already exempt from income taxes. Since some cities, particularly small towns, rely heavily on grocery sales tax revenues, Gunn proposes increasing the state sales tax “diversion” to cities to make up for any grocery tax losses.

While the income tax and grocery tax breaks would be phased in over years, the increase in sales and other taxes would begin immediately. The breaks would cost about $269 million the first year, but some estimate the increased sales taxes would bring in about $1 billion. This imbalance, which could last for years, has raised some concerns. But Gunn proposes about $500 million from this initial windfall be placed into a budget stabilization fund in case of shortfalls.

Gunn has been touring the state for months now, promoting his plan to various local leaders and civic groups. He’s also been countering arguments and concerns.

“In every scenario, we’ve calculated and determined most people end up with more money in their pocket,” Gunn said. “Putting more money, disposable income, in the pockets of our citizens is a good thing.

“I don’t know who could argue that.”

One analysis of Gunn’s tax proposal, by the progressive Washington-based Institute of Taxation and Economic Policy, said the bottom 60% of Mississippi wage earners would end up paying more taxes while the top 40% would pay less.

The study said that lower and middle-income Mississippians already have a greater tax burden than the state’s wealthiest, and the new plan would exacerbate that. The study reported those earning less than $49,100 would see a net increase from the consumption tax increases, in a state where the median household income is $45,792. A person making $23,000 a year, the study said, would see an overall tax increase of $270 a year, while a person making $924,000 a year (the top 1%) would see a tax decrease of $28,610.

Gunn says such projections are wrong, and his plan “provides relief to the poorest of the poor first, and that’s unusual — it’s usually a top-down thing.”

Gunn and other proponents of the plan note that the poorest people in Mississippi — those receiving food benefits — already don’t pay taxes on most groceries, and that the companion grocery tax cuts will help others of modest means.

“Most of what you spend your money on is not subject to the sales tax,” Gunn said. “In Mississippi, we don’t tax gasoline via the sales tax — we put an excise on that. We don’t tax medicines, your mortgage and your insurance are not, so many things are not subject to a sales tax … This puts the power in the hands of the taxpayer … Here, to a degree, you decide how much tax you pay. You control that by deciding what your tolerance is for taxes, or you don’t buy the things that cost you taxes.”

But advocates for the poor say sales tax increases result in a higher burden for poor people, who are forced to spend more of their income for basic needs. Currently, with Mississippi’s already relatively high sales tax rate, those earning less than $16,100 a year pay more than 10% of their income in state and local taxes. Those making more than $162,000 pay 6.5% of their income on state and local taxes. Advocates say the new plan would exacerbate disparities.

And as he sells his plan to various civic leaders across the state, Gunn has made comments that would appear anathema to helping the poorest of the poor.

“We all benefit from all the stuff that government provides,” Gunn said. “It only makes sense that everybody share in that. Right now, not everybody pays income tax. You’re broadening the pool of taxpayers, so the burden is less on everyone. Secondly, you’re bringing in out-of-staters, people traveling through the state, using the roads and services.”

House Minority Leader Robert Johnson, D-Natchez, is one of a handful of Democrats who voted for Gunn’s plan in the House in the 2021 session. He said the Democratic Caucus hasn’t endorsed it, and he’s still got concerns about the plan and believes it needs more work. But he believes Gunn is making an effort to create an egalitarian tax structure. He said he was impressed that Gunn was willing to raise taxes on “people who have had tax breaks for years” to balance out income tax elimination — although he noted that Gunn is already backtracking on sales tax increases on manufacturing and farm equipment after an outcry from their lobbies.

“The fact that he would even entertain that is promising,” Johnson said. “He didn’t just say, ‘I’m going to cut taxes and eat it and cut a bunch of agencies budgets to do it’ … The people that elect us and work and pay taxes, the working man and woman out there, would see an immediate benefit, and the grocery tax cuts … I think this will take more work. But I’m confident there will be input, and we’d like to be more involved.”

One group that doesn’t pay Mississippi income taxes is retirees, and Gunn has had to fend off criticism that his plan would hurt them financially with increased sales taxes.

“A lot of retirees say, ‘I don’t pay income taxes, but you’re raising my sales tax,’” Gunn said. “I have walked through the scenario with those folks who are willing to share their financial situation with us, and in no situation is anyone being cast into poverty.

“You sit retirees down and ask what do you spend your money on,” Gunn said. “Medicine, gasoline, grandkids — most of it is not subject to sales tax. What you’re generally left with is groceries and grandkids, and this is cutting the grocery tax. Take that couple living on $40,000 a year fixed income, and they usually spend about 1/4 on stuff subject to sales taxes, about $10,000 a year. That means their increase in tax is about $250 a year, around $12 a month, so you ask them could they absorb $12 a month, and the answer is usually yes.

“But wait a minute, we’re not done,” Gunn said, “because we are cutting the grocery tax in half … Do the math on that, and it’s about $364 a year they are paying in taxes on that, and we are cutting that in half. So on the one hand they’re going up $250, but we’re giving them back $182, for a net loss of less than 70 bucks a year, less than $10 a month. They say they can absorb that — but wait a minute, what better to give your grandkids than to eliminate the income tax for them?

“Imagine how much money any of us would have if when we started our careers we didn’t have to pay income tax to the state of Mississippi,” Gunn said. “If I had that money back in a mutual fund somewhere, no telling how much that would be …. Every one of them I’ve talked with say, ‘Absolutely, I’m willing to do that.’”

Gov. Tate Reeves has also proposed eliminating the state’s personal income tax. But he says it should be eliminated without any offsetting increases in sales or other taxes. He says economic growth would cover the cuts, and has otherwise not presented a very detailed proposal.

Reeves has said he appreciates fellow Republican Gunn bringing income tax elimination to the fore in the Legislature, but has criticized the speaker’s plan for its consumption tax increases.

“I wouldn’t want to be a Republican that votes to increase taxes substantially for certain segments of the public,” Reeves said. “… I personally support tax cuts, not tax swaps or tax transfers or tax increases … I don’t think we ought to sit here and pick and choose who to take money from. I think we ought to take less from everybody.”

Gunn says simply eliminating the personal income tax without replacing the revenue will not work.

“We have a $6 billion budget,” Gunn said. “By the time you eliminate the income tax and cut the grocery tax in half, that’s $1.9 billion. You can’t just cut a third of your home budget, or your business budget or your church budget and survive. You just can’t do it, and government can’t either. That’s what they tried in Kansas, and ended up raising taxes a couple of years later by $400 million.”

Led by Gunn and then Lt. Gov. Reeves, the Legislature next year is wrapping up a multi-year phase-out of the lowest, 3% personal income tax bracket on the first $5,000 of people’s income. This leaves a 4% tax on income from $5,000 to $10,000 and a 5% rate on income exceeding $10,000.

Reeves says the phase out of the bottom bracket shows Mississippi could eliminate the rest of the income taxes over time through growth without raising other taxes. Gunn disagrees.

“Some have said just phase it out like we did the 3%, half a percent a year or so,” Gunn said. “If we did that, it would take until 2051 to get rid of the income tax, and that’s assuming 3% growth. If we had 2.5% growth, it would take until 2085. We’d all be dead.

“We are trying to get some immediate tax relief,” Gunn continued. “We are trying to retain our young people, to stop what we call brain drain … Young people would not be sitting there saying, ‘Hey, I’m going to move to Mississippi because 30 years from now they are not going to have an income tax.’”

Analyses of Gunn’s plan from economists, tax think-tanks and business groups have been mixed as to the net results for the state and particular interests.

The conservative Tax Foundation, which generally supports cutting taxes and shifting from income to consumption taxes, has served as Gunn’s spirit animal in his push for the tax change. But the foundation’s analysis of Gunn’s plan has been somewhat critical of particulars.

For starters, it says phasing out the tax through expansion of exemptions “is inferior to an approach which gradually lowers rates.” And, in direct opposition of the Institute of Taxation analysis, the Tax Foundation says the cut in grocery taxes would benefit middle and higher income people more than lower income people.

“I would suggest reducing rates over time instead of dramatically increasing the personal exemption — which would immediately eliminate taxes for 60% of taxpayers, but would still leave many on the hook for years,” said Katherine E. Loughead, senior policy analyst with the Tax Foundation. “I think that would create some complications in terms of filing, making it difficult for people to know whether they’re still being taxed — just create complexities for those at or near that threshold and a choppier process. The better approach is to phase out the rates, so people are still filing and still owe some, but the amount is reduced until it’s gone.”

Loughead said that while cutting the grocery tax may be “pretty popular politically on both sides of the aisle,” it likely wouldn’t help the people it’s intended to help the most.

“The middle and higher income people spend more on groceries,” Loughead said. “It’s great in theory, but it would be better for lower income people to pay as low a rate as possible overall on all consumption.”

Loughead said broadening the sales tax base overall would be better than picking and choosing certain areas to increase or exempt, although she said the plan should try to avoid sales taxes on “inputs,” such as equipment and supplies for manufacturing. This results in “tax pyramiding” that ends up hitting consumers with multiple taxes, some of which they don’t clearly see when they happen down the supply chain.

“I know it’s not popular, but currently motor fuels are subject to an excise, for roads, but not sales taxes,” Loughead said, “and including motor fuels in the sales tax base would generate a lot of revenue. Applying sales tax to fuels and to consumer services, things like hair salons and other personal services, would broaden that base.”

House Ways and Means Chairman Trey Lamar, one of the architects of Gunn’s tax plan, said he understands the Tax Foundation’s principles, but realpolitik means some of those have to be compromised to pass a tax plan through the Legislature.

“We’ve had some of those conversations, and I wouldn’t say (a gas sales tax) is totally off the table, but you also have to get your votes, and from a political standpoint, so far our plan doesn’t tax anything new that’s not taxed,” Lamar said. “Taxing haircuts — if you really want to tick people off, tell every hairdresser in the state there’s going to be a tax on haircuts … I understand how things should be in a perfect world, and the Tax Foundation lives in a perfect tax world. Other factors come into play — not saying they are wrong — it’s just also what can you actually get the votes to do.”

So far, no major business groups are joining Gunn in his push for the tax plan, and some, like NFIB, have raised concerns. The Business and Industry Political Education Committee, a group that scores lawmakers each year with its “Business and Jobs Report Card,” gave House lawmakers who voted for Gunn’s tax plan lower scores, deeming a vote for it as anti-business.

“(Gunn’s plan) would have increased taxes on the following industries: manufacturing, farming, timber, dairy and automobile dealers,” BIPEC said in a statement. “Electric power associations would have also faced increased costs that would likely be passed on to consumers, including business customers … While (an amendment) removed tax increases on some industries, many still faced significant tax increases on business inputs.”

The conservative Empower Mississippi group supports lowering or eliminating the state income tax and has said Gunn’s plan has some merits, but has not fully endorsed it.

“Empower believes there is a path to eliminate the income tax that leads to more jobs, higher wages and greater economic and population growth, but the mechanics matter,” the group said in a statement. “The bill that emerged from the House was a good starting point for an important discussion, but we believe there is an opportunity for more stakeholders to come together and improve upon it.”

The major long-term effects of the plan have been the subject of debate since it was unveiled this year. One study, by two economics professors at the University of Mississippi, found the proposal would increase the state’s gross domestic product by $371 million a year and make the tax structure more efficient. Another study by the state economist and others with IHL’s University Research Center, commissioned by Lt. Gov. Delbert Hosemann, found the plan would produce only minuscule growth in GDP, jobs and population through the year 2035.

Gunn’s plan got no hearing or vote in the Senate during the 2021 legislative session, and Lt. Gov. Hosemann and his leadership team have been lukewarm on it at best. But the Senate is planning to have hearings on the issue this summer, likely in August.

Asked for comment from Hosemann recently, his Deputy Chief of Staff Leah Rupp Smith in a statement said: “Senate Finance Chairman Josh Harkins will hold hearings on tax reform in August. These hearings will likely inform legislation introduced in the 2021 session.”

Otherwise, Hosemann and Senate leaders have said they favor reducing taxes, but urge caution and said any major change in tax structure should be thoroughly vetted.

“We are working to put hearings together for the Senate members to really go over this, and look at all phases of our fiscal policy, income, our revenue, our tax exemptions, diversions — everything that has to to with fiscal policy,” said Harkins, R-Flowood. “For instance, people would be amazed at how much of what we collect is taken off the top in diversions … Texas is booming, with no income tax, but let’s take a close look at Texas — they have 90 something different business services they tax. South Dakota has over 100. Mississippi has only 76, like we don’t pay a sales tax when we get a hair cut for instance. They’ve expanded their base and draw sales tax from more than we do … I want to make sure everybody understands where everything is coming from and where it’s going.”

Harkins said the Senate hearings will likely include numerous economic and tax experts.

“This is a major policy decision,” Harkins said. “… This is a third of our budget, so it’s important to get it right. I just want to make sure we don’t get out over our skis on this. We will investigate it and make sure whatever we do is prudent and responsible and going to work.”

Senate Minority Leader Derrick Simmons, D-Greenville, said vetting of any plan would include ensuring it doesn’t result in cuts to already underfunded services, and that it doesn’t disproportionately benefit wealthy people.

“Any proposal to overhaul our already regressive tax code would need extensive study,” Simmons said. “Many policymakers are concerned about how we continue to fund vital functions of government such as education, healthcare, infrastructure and how we reward and retain state employees.”

Gunn said, “We are going to make sure the functions of government are not compromised,” and said any talk that his plan would gut education or other spending “is a red herring.”

Gunn continues to sell his plan across the state.

“The only way this will happen is if the people decide they want this — you, the people, will have to get behind this,” Gunn said at a recent forum arranged by Empower Mississippi.

“We’ve got to get the Legislature on board,” Gunn said. “I can’t go down there and do that, the people in the Legislature have got to hear from their constituents, the grassroots. I’m here to preach the gospel of income tax elimination, make converts and then make disciples. That’s why I’m here today. I hope I made some converts in this room, and now we need to go out as disciples and spread the word. Everything in the Legislature operates on votes, and we can’t pass Mother’s Day if we don’t have the votes.”

The post Speaker Philip Gunn struggles to garner support for income tax-sales tax swap appeared first on Mississippi Today.

The latest surge of COVID-19 cases in Mississippi, caused by the Delta variant, is also hitting the state’s younger population, increasing concerns over the return to schools next month. 

State Health Officer Dr. Thomas Dobbs tweeted Tuesday that 7 minors have been hospitalized due to Delta infections in Mississippi, and 2 of them are now on ventilators. The earlier strains of COVID-19 were much less transmissible and did not infect children to the extent seen with the Delta variant.

Over the past three weeks, the number of confirmed Delta cases in Mississippi has increased nearly sevenfold, up from 29 to 231. Those 231 cases only represent a small surveillance sample though, so it is undoubtedly only a small fraction of the Delta infections in the state.

During an interview on SuperTalk Radio’s Gallo Show on Monday, Dobbs predicted that infections in younger people will cause a large wave of infections and negatively impact school district plans to reopen fully with in-person instruction. 

“It’s going to be disruptive,” Dobbs said. “I think Delta’s going to take its toll on having a successful, vibrant school year because kids are going to have to be quarantined, they’re going to have to be isolated. We’re going to have outbreaks and all that kind of stuff.”

What those outbreaks look like will be dependent on virus circulation in a school district’s surrounding community and individual districts’ policies on mask wearing and social distancing, since no requirements will be coming at the state level. 

“Governor Reeves has no intention of requiring students or staff to wear masks when they’re in school this Fall,” Reeves’ press secretary, Bailey Martin, said in an email to WLBT this week.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released new guidance on Friday, urging schools to fully reopen in the fall, naming safe in-person instruction as a priority. The agency said all people who are not fully vaccinated should wear masks while inside school buildings, and classrooms should maintain a physical distance between students of at least three feet. However, they also said that schools should forgo the distance recommendation if it would prevent them from reopening fully and instead rely on other prevention strategies. 

State Epidemiologist Dr. Paul Byers said on July 9 that MSDH will release Mississippi-specific components to back to school guidance, which will include recommended mask wearing for unvaccinated teachers and students. 

The differences between individual school districts’ approaches to limiting virus spread can already be seen in their back to school plans. Masks will be required in all Jackson Public Schools, for example, but Clinton and Madison County schools will start the fall semester off with masks being optional. 

The vast majority of minors in Mississippi are not currently vaccinated. According to MSDH, only 6% of 12-15 year-olds are fully vaccinated, and only 13% of 16-17 year-olds are. Despite the wide availability of vaccines and the risks posed by variants, Mississippi continues to rank last in the nation in the share of its population that has been vaccinated. With over 2 million shots administered, only 31% of Mississippians have been fully vaccinated.

A component of MSDH’s plan to increase the number of inoculated minors is making vaccinations available in schools. Every Mississippi school district has the option to partner with a vaccine provider to give shots on-site, though it is unclear how many will utilize the opportunity.

 “We hope that they all take advantage of it,” Dobbs said. 

New recommendations released by MSDH last week in response to the Delta surge urge all people 12 and older to get vaccinated. Dobbs has said that the risk for severe outcomes among infected minors is small, but is still present, and there is a much larger risk that they will spread the virus to someone more vulnerable. 

“Most (infected minors) are not going to be hospitalized. There will be some severe illnesses, and we’ll probably sadly see some more deaths in young folks, but it’s not that common,” Dobbs said. 

The surge of Delta infections Mississippi is experiencing is already hitting hospitals and ICUs. While hospitalizations are nowhere near their February peak, the increase in recent weeks has been sharp. Between June 26 and July 10, hospitalizations increased 128%, from 97 to 222. The number of COVID-19 patients in ICUs has increased 155% over the past week, from 33 to 84. 

Dobbs said that the increase in hospital and ICU admissions is straining the hospital systems in parts of the state, like Jackson and Hattiesburg, that have seen non-COVID procedures fill up their ICUs.

“There’s not a lot of slack in the system,” Dobbs said. 

The post Children affected by latest COVID-19 surge, raising concerns over back-to-school plans appeared first on Mississippi Today.

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School board members for the Holmes County Consolidated School District promoted the daughter of the new superintendent from a $47,000-a-year position in the district to the director of technology, a district-level position with an annual salary of $82,920. 

At a special called board meeting last month, the board voted to approve the hire of Superintendent Debra Powell’s daughter with only one member opposing, according to the meeting minutes. 

The board first approved Powell’s recommendation of Shimelle Mayers as assistant superintendent of the district. Shortly after, Mayers presented the job description for the technology director position and recommended Powell’s daughter for the position.

The district came under fire for similar practices under former superintendent James Henderson. A report by the state auditor’s office revealed “widespread problems” in the district, including that the district paid $14,000 to businesses owned by relatives of Henderson, and that the relationships were not disclosed to the board.

In May, the Mississippi Department of Education launched an investigation of the embattled district and appointed a financial adviser to oversee the district’s finances. Holmes County schools have received a failing grade for six consecutive years.

State law has a general nepotism statute that says “no public servant shall use his official position to obtain, or attempt to obtain … pecuniary benefit for any relative or any business with which he is associated.” The Mississippi Ethics Commission, the body that issues advisory opinions regarding the state’s conflict-of-interest and ethics laws, has also sounded off on a similar situation.

“If a superintendent recommends his or her relative to the school board for employment or renewal, then the superintendent will violate” the law, a 2017 opinion states. It continues to outline what it calls a “step aside” provision in the law which allows a superintendent’s designee to recommend the superintendent’s relatives to no more than two positions at a school. 

“The Office of the Attorney General has opined that Section 37-9-17 is applicable only to employees of schools and is not applicable to employees of the district office,” the opinion continues. 

An organizational chart for the Holmes County district shows the technology director position is a district-level position that reports to the assistant superintendent.

Questions submitted to Powell and Winters, including whether they sought the advice of the Ethics Commission before the school board approved Powell’s daughter, were not returned. 

Shimelle Mayers, the newly appointed assistant superintendent in the district, said in a statement that Karmeen Powell-Childress, Powell’s daughter, “was selected because of her knowledge and experience in technology and business.”

“As it relates to the position of Director of Technology, there were three internal candidates and two external candidates. The interview committee scored the applicants and sent them to me; we did not discuss our selection with each other … Dr. Powell was not on the interview committee, nor was she present on the campus during the interviews.”  

At the same meeting, the board also hired the son of Board President Louise Winters as a teacher in the district. The minutes show Winters recused herself from the vote. A 2006 opinion by the Mississippi Ethics Commission says this is allowed as long as the child and parent are financially independent and the parent recuses him or herself from the vote.

Shella Head, president of the P-16, a council made up of public members that is legally required in failing schools, said she believes more qualified candidates were overlooked for the position.

“The fact that this woman (Debra Powell) was hired by the board May 10 (as superintendent), and the first thing she did as superintendent was to put her daughter in an $82,000 job and overlook qualified people is very concerning,” said Head. “As president of the P-16 council, my concern is with the children of Holmes County and their education and their future.” 

Head also said she does not believe Powell and the board are leading the district in the right direction. Since May, the P-16, a council with the goal of engaging members of the public in the happenings of the school district, has been inexplicably removed from the board agenda and told it must pay a $400 fee to hold its meeting in one of the district schools, according to emails between district officials and council members. It has also still not received data it requested from the district in May, according to Head.

“The problem (in the district) is not the staff, it’s not that the kids cannot learn. The problem we have is in the district office with the superintendent and the board of education,” said Head.

The school board hired Powell, a Holmes County native, in May of this year. She was a former principal in Missouri. This is her first district level position in her career.

The post Promotion of superintendent’s daughter raises ethics questions in Holmes Co. school district appeared first on Mississippi Today.

Redistricting is always fun. And knowing that Legislators will set public redistricting hearings, complete with live-streaming, is even better.

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In April we launched NextGen Mississippi, our longterm reporting project focused on the realities of why Mississippians stay or leave. Dozens of creatives responded to our survey and shared why they took their talents to other states.

Some shared experiences of “belonging” when they left the state to pursue their crafts while others highlighted “lack of opportunities and support” in Mississippi.

We want to hear from more creatives for an episode of MT Speaks, our new video series. If you are willing to be featured in this episode by speaking with a Mississippi Today reporter about your experience as a creative in Mississippi, please fill out the form below.

The post Creative Mississippians: We want to hear from you. appeared first on Mississippi Today.

The joint committee tasked with developing a plan to redraw the four U.S. House seats and the 174 state legislative seats have scheduled nine public hearings across the state to garner public input.

The hearings will be live-streamed on the Mississippi Legislature’s YouTube channel available at the Legislature’s website.

The issue of live-streaming the meetings first came up in June during the first meeting of the joint committee, which consists of members of the state House and Senate. At the meeting, Lt. Gov Delbert Hosemann, who presides over the Senate, was insistent that the meetings be live-streamed and that locations be found for the meetings that could accommodate internet access. He said the live-streaming is important to allow people who cannot attend the meetings because of work commitments and other conflicts an opportunity to gather information on the redistricting process.

“We want full access to be made available so that people will be available to see in real time their neighbors offer their opinions on redistricting,” Hosemann said at the time.

Rep. Jim Beckett, R-Bruce, sent out an announcement of the meeting locations Monday and also announced that they would be live streamed.

Legislators are tasked with redrawing their districts (52 Senate and 122 House districts) and the four congressional districts every 10 years based on population changes found by the U.S. Census.

Preliminary census data was released in April indicating that Mississippi was one of three states to actually lose population during the past 10 years. The state is not expected to receive from the Census Bureau the specific data needed to complete redistricting until September.

But the joint committee believes it can begin the task of holding public hearings before the specific data is available. The first hearing will be held Aug. 5 at Meridian Community College.

Senate Pro Tem Dean Kirby, R-Pearl, who is the co-chair of the redistricting committee, has said the plan is for the committee to have a recommendation to make to the full Legislature early in the 2022 session on congressional redistricting. The Legislature will be on a tight time frame to complete congressional redistricting since the deadline to qualify to run for U.S. House seats in 2022 is March 1.

The next elections for the legislative seats will not occur until 2023.

The statewide meetings, all slated to start at 6 p.m., are scheduled:

• Aug. 5: Meridian, at Meridian Community College in the McCain Theater.
• Aug. 6: Tupelo, Itawamba Community College Belden Center.
• Aug. 9: Senatobia, Northwest Community College Haraway Center.
• Aug. 11: Itta Bena, Mississippi Valley State University William A. Butts Social Science Building.
• Aug. 12: Starkville, Mississippi State University Hunter Henry Center.
• Aug. 16: Natchez, Alcorn State University Business School Auditorium.
• Aug. 18: Gulfport, Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College Harrison County campus Fine Arts Auditorium.
•  Aug. 19: Hattiesburg, University of Southern Mississippi Joe Paul Theater in the Thad Cochran Center.
• Aug. 23: Jackson, Mississippi Capitol, room 216.

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First thing first: This is not going to be the definitive essay on the name, image and likeness issue facing the big business of college athletics these days. It doesn’t claim to be.

That essay does not yet exist. There are too many unknowns, too much still to be decided.

The only thing we know is this: College athletes are about to get paid — and not under the table. We have long been headed in this direction. And now we are here.

The NCAA fought it — indeed, fought it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. There, the NCAA lost 9-0, which is the courtroom version of  just how badly Millsaps football would lose to Alabama. Of course, Millsaps would never fight that battle. The NCAA was stupid enough to do so.

And that 9-0 decision begs these questions: Who thought it would be otherwise? Do you know how wrong you have to be for all nine justices on this court to agree you were wrong? These judges can’t agree on anything and yet they agree on this point: The NCAA is not above the law. The highest court in the land essentially has ruled, unanimously, that the NCAA has long been in violation of antitrust laws.

The NCAA makes millions. The universities make millions. The coaches make millions. The TV networks make millions. Yet players, for decades, have been limited — at least above the table — to tuition, room and board in the name of “amateurism.”

It makes no sense. It never made sense. It’s about to change.

And so, you ask, how will this affect the college sports world as we know it? Will there be big winners and big losers? Will the landscape change, competition-wise?

My guess, based on half a century of following college athletics: No. Not much at all. Alabama will still be Alabama in football. Ohio State will still be Ohio State. Basketball-wise, Kentucky will still be Kentucky. Duke will be Duke and so on. 

If anything, the rich will get richer, and the poor, well, for the poor the struggle continues.

As mentioned before, there is so much to be determined. And there are so many potential rough patches that must be smoothed. Number one, you know this going to enter into the recruitment process for athletes. If there’s one thing we know about college athletics dating back to the 1930s and ‘40s, every coach and every school looks for the competitive edge in recruiting. Endorsement deals, arranged during the recruiting process, presumably would be an NCAA violation. How to police that?

Numbers wise, one of the biggest issues is this: For athletes, all this above-the-table earning will be taxable income. The government will get its share. These are 18- and 19-year-olds and 20-somethings, most of whom will have had little experience balancing a checkbook, much less dealing with taxable income. And most of those who have worked at paying jobs have had their taxes deducted from their paychecks. The universities are going to have to educate their athletes — either that, or many college athletes are going to leave with delinquent tax bills and no way to pay.

Some of these athletes are going to be paid with items other than cash — for instance, clothes, shoes, gym memberships, country club memberships, transportation, etc. All that is taxable income. The government will get its share. Someone must do the accounting.

The other huge issue I see is potential jealousies that could arise. Let’s say the star quarterback gets a huge endorsement contract, while the left tackle, who protects his blind side, gets little or nothing. How will that work out?  

It’s not like coaching hasn’t gotten more complicated recently with the transfer portal. The NIL issues will complicate a coach’s job that much more.

But big-time college coaches are paid beyond handsomely to deal with these problems. Now, the players will get paid, too. If there is a bottom line, a definitive statement about NIL at this time, it is this: It’s about time.

The post Bottom line on NIL issue? Players are about to share NCAA’s bounty appeared first on Mississippi Today.

In this week’s episode of The Other Side, Brandon Jones, policy director for the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Action Funds, talks with Mississippi Today’s Bobby Harrison and Geoff Pender about results of the poll his organization commissioned on reinstating the ballot initiative process that was struck down by Mississippi Supreme Court.

Listen here and read a transcript of the episode below.

Bobby Harrison: [00:00:00] Hello, welcome to The Other Side. I’m Bobby Harrison, a political reporter at Mississippi Today. I’m here with my colleague, Geoff Pender. Geoff, how are you doing?

Geoff Pender: [00:00:16] Hey, Bobby. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:00:17] And we’re fortunate to have today as our guest Brandon Jones. Brandon is the policy director for the Southern Poverty Law Center Action Fund. And he’s here to talk about a number of things, but the primary issue he’s going to talk about is the poll that his organization has recently done on the initiative process, which was struck down by the Supreme Court. Brandon. Well, first of all, welcome. 

Brandon Jones: [00:00:39] Yeah, good morning. Good to be with you, Bobby and Geoff. Good to see both of you and happy to be part of this podcast that I listen to regularly. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:00:48] Thanks for being here. Let’s just get started. I mean, why did y’all do this poll? 

Brandon Jones: [00:00:54] Yeah. Well, as you both know, we, at this stage of the game, don’t have what I would call ballot initiative culture yet in Mississippi. We’re not a state like California that’s accustomed to voting on these things every year, or even, even Florida and other places that have passed some. But it’s kind of starting to be something that people are looking at more and more. And so this ballot initiative process has become a viable way for citizens to bring an issue up.

It’s just getting short shrift at the Capitol, or maybe getting ignored. You know, I’ve talked to  both of you in the past about restoration of rights. You know, Mississippi is pretty restrictive on who it allows to vote after they serve time. Well, last year, as an example, there were more bills filed on restoration of rights than any other general bill in the Legislature.

There were 21 filed. Not one of them got a hearing. Not one of them got brought up in committee. Nobody talked about them on the floor of the chambers. That’s a perfect example of an issue that clearly there’s an audience for, clearly there’s interest in, but it’s not getting any play. So I think it’s clear that the time has come when more and more Mississippians are interested in exploring the initiative process, and it’s still needed.

It’s still needed. For our part, we were very much involved in Medicaid expansion. That’s an issue that for us, the time is overdue. It’s a no brainer I think financially and in a host of ways for Mississippians. And so we were deep into that campaign. And as you both know, had launched a campaign, had put together a good coalition across ideological spectrums.

There were some conservative groups and progressive groups and folks in between, and were very much in the middle of hiring, starting to figure out what the signatures were going to look like. We had gone to court to make sure that the language on the ballot was going to be appropriate. And so we had very much an interest in it in the short term, but I think for the long term, you were going to see an increasing number of people using this.

I want to say, and I know Bobby I’m giving you a long-winded answer here, but it may be worth noting. I think I’ve heard some of the detractors of the process saying that, “Well, yeah, these Medicaid expansion folks want it. The marijuana  folks want it.” It’s important to note that in the history of the ballot initiative process in Mississippi, I think you could say pretty safely conservatives have been more successful using the process than anybody else.

I mean, the two that come to mind are eminent domain and voter ID, which were passed using this process. So I say that just to make the point. People might hear me and think, “Well, Southern Poverty Law Center, they’ve got a particular angle on this.” Well, actually this has been utilized by conservative groups historically in Mississippi to great effect.

Bobby Harrison: [00:03:41] Yeah. I mean, a lot of people would argue that the other side, the progressive side if you will, was just beginning to use a process when it was struck down. Maybe that was a coincidence, but that’s the way it appears to have happened. 

Brandon Jones: [00:03:52] You do wonder how long this lawsuit, this particular argument, was sitting in the back pocket.

Like I wonder if 42 had— I don’t know. It makes the mind—you wonder a little bit about why now? Why not before? But, you know, you all have observed this process as long as I have, we scratch our heads a lot of times at the timing of things.

Bobby Harrison: [00:04:14] But politics is a head-scratcher a lot of times. 

Geoff Pender: [00:04:17] Brandon just for a second.

Could you run through some of the top lines from your poll? What did it show? What is the feeling out there among the public? 

Brandon Jones: [00:04:26] Sure. You know, for us, one of the key things we wanted to figure out was with medical marijuana getting 73% on the November ballot our question was: Okay. We know people are angry.

We know folks are frustrated with the Supreme Court decision back in may. Are they mad because they wanted medical marijuana, which I think we all know now is an issue that is popular with a lot of Mississippians, regardless of what their political stripes are. So what we wanted to know is can we parse out the difference in people who are solely interested in an issue like medical marijuana with folks who are interested in the ballot initiative process itself?

So the top line number for me is 82% of the voters in the state want an initiative process. That is four out of five voters of a 600 voters sample that was tested, tested, and retested to make sure we had the right blend of respondents that looked like a Mississippi election, you know predominantly Republican.

But 82% of them said they wanted an initiative process. So once you establish that, you ask the question of, well, what comes next? Because what the Supreme Court has told us is the Legislature has to do something. So our next question that I think is worth noting for listeners:

Do you want the state Legislature to fix the initiative process? That came in just to touch beneath four out of five, 79%. I mean, statistically four out of five want it. So then, as you all have explored, well, what does that look like? How do you do it? Well, the Legislature only meets during the early months of the year.

If they were going to do something between now and January, it would require the governor to call a special session. So we asked that question: Do you want Governor Reeves to call a special session? And that was three out of four. Seventy-six percent said we would be in favor. And what we noticed was the difference between the big number total and Republicans.

Well,  it was just hardly any sunshine at all between those two. I mean it was the same pretty much regardless of your background within, I think the margin of error. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:06:32] Yeah, the pollster, and you maybe talk a little about the pollster, but he said that in today’s political environment, he’s seldom seen issues where Republicans and Democrats were in such lock step, that they agreed on the issue. And he said that was a surprising element of the poll for him. 

Brandon Jones: [00:06:48] A hundred percent. I mean, you all know better than perhaps anybody in the state that we’re at a divided time in our country. We’re at a particularly divided time in our state.

You can’t get folks to agree on virtually anything. So if you get 80% and it’s coming in from both sides of that. And I’ll just tell you to that point. The folks who I’ve had the most conversations with about  taking action at the Legislature are our movement conservatives in the Legislature who feel very strongly about the ballot initiative process.

Geoff Pender: [00:07:14] Your poll, another analysis type finding is our call was that I forget how you phrased it, but there is some political danger here to not heed this, the sentiment of the voters. I guess for the time being anyway, that would fall on the governor’s shoulders. As far as you know, people wanting him to call a session.

Brandon Jones: [00:07:32] Yeah. You know there’s the question of how do you get state leadership to do something that requires a little bit of movement on their part? Like, I mean— 

Geoff Pender: [00:07:44] It requires some leadership. 

Brandon Jones: [00:07:45] Yeah. I mean, it really is like the governor has to call a special session and then set the agenda and that takes some doing, and so you’re right, Geoff.

I mean, we wanted to test, so you like the initiative process, you believe that the governor should call a special session and those were overwhelming numbers. So we asked people: Well, what if the governor didn’t call a special session? How would that affect your opinion of the governor? And what we found was that, pretty overwhelmingly, 63% said that they would be more likely to vote for a state legislator if they called for a special session. And the numbers flip almost perfectly to how they would feel about the Legislature and those numbers are almost identical to what they said about Governor Reeves. So we’re talking about numbers above the sixties. And so, yeah, I mean, so what we learned was that overwhelmingly people said, “Well, if this doesn’t happen, it’s going to impact our opinion of not only the governor, but also of legislators, depending on how they handle it.

Which again, when you’re in the position of trying to persuade people in office to take action, that’s one of the key data points you can bring them is to say, “Well, not only do people care about this, they say they’re going to factor that into how they evaluate you as somebody they’d vote for.” 

Bobby Harrison: [00:09:03] Large majority of the electorate want it fixed, and they want it fixed now. 

Brandon Jones: [00:09:06] Yeah, that’s right. They want it fixed quickly. And you heard, you know, you all talked to Secretary Watson who went into detail about some of the folks he’s heard from on the medical marijuana issue in particular. There is a sense of urgency out there. And there was a sense too, for people who worked on that issue— we did not.

But for folks who advocated on that issue, once they started to put the pieces in place to build out that infrastructure and then they lost it, the impact of that and kind of having people prepared for that. So there is a sense of urgency that comes from that. But as we found here, there’s also a sense of urgency. Just, dadgummit. We want to be able to petition our government. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:09:41] Yeah. When I introduced you, one thing I didn’t mention is that you, I don’t think you do it anymore, but for a period of time, you were a television political analyst with your friend on the Republican side, Austin,Barbour. 

Brandon Jones: [00:09:52] Well it is deeply sad  to me, Bobby, but we still got the show. It’s just only on during the session. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:09:56] Oh, that’s right. Well, that’s right. But anyway, so I may be asking you to do some analysis right now in relation to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is an elected body, but, you know, I would venture to guess most people in the state can’t name the Supreme Court justices.

This has kind of brought them to the forefront. They run every six years. Is this the type of issue that could bring them some political consequences?  When you talked about it, when you released the poll, you referred to their ruling as they were ruling on a technicality.

So, are there political consequences for the justices? 

Brandon Jones: [00:10:32] Yeah. You know, courts have a history of taking antiquated law and kind of weird facts and making them work for the modern era. They do that all the time. And that was the anticipation here. So that’s why I called it a technicality. They hung on this thing that said you couldn’t have more than 20% out of one district, which became impossible under the current math.

Yeah, Bobby, we have all watched as our courts in Mississippi have become increasingly political and as an attorney and, you know, longtime trial lawyer in this state, I think that’s regrettable. I think that’s not a great thing that now we have Supreme Court justices who openly embrace parties and parties openly embrace them.

I couldn’t help but notice in a non-election year Justice Griffis will be speaking at the Neshoba County Fair. I suspect he won’t be talking about the civil rules of procedure. That’ll probably be a quasi political speech. I think that kind of thing is weird, but I think at some point it becomes a question of are you going to deal with the reality of this or not?

Let’s face it. Judges set up campaign committees. Those campaign committees raise money. And depending on which district you’re in, the judges lobby for support from the party, and parties have been happy to give it to them where it worked out. And the business community that funds our statewide elected offices and legislators, it doesn’t take a mathematician or a great accountant to draw a line between the same folks that give money to this guy over here, giving money to the Supreme Court justices. So. Look, I think—

Geoff Pender: [00:11:59] We’ve even seen party endorsements, governors’ endorsements.

Brandon Jones: [00:12:02] That’s right. Yeah. So that the temperature is going way up on all of that. Like nowadays, if somebody was just coming here as an observer that didn’t know anything about how we historically tried to keep that sort of independence, they would probably think, “Well, that looks like a pretty partisan race.”

Now let’s be fair here. Judges aren’t supposed to claim a party, so they don’t say, ” I’m running as a.” But I don’t know how far that really gets. I think that the true reality is it’s political. So to your question, Bobby, yes. I do think that this could have an impact on the way people look at judges, because what we’ve learned is that the same things can be used against any political candidate can be used against the judge.

For example, the 73% of people that just voted for medical marijuana. If the Legislature doesn’t get their act together and figure out a program, if the governor doesn’t call them back in, if somehow this thing doesn’t get delivered, folks are going to be angry. If somehow the Legislature doesn’t figure out the ballot initiative process, if the governor doesn’t call them back in for that, folks could be angry there and they could connect the dots.

 It wouldn’t take a great campaign wizard to connect the dots back to the Supreme Court and back to justices. I think that’s just the reality of it. The problem though, is you mentioned these justices don’t run but every six years and they run on a staggered basis. And so the next Supreme Court race by my account is I believe 2024, so it’s still a couple years out. And you know what we say in politics. Man, it’s a lifetime. I mean, so I think to your question, yes, we tested that a little bit. You know, we, we tested: How do you feel about the ballot initiative process being taken away? People overwhelmingly disapproved.

When we said, how do you feel about it being taken away by the Supreme Court? They even got more upset about that. So clearly you could use that, but you know, two years from now, there might be a dozen other things.  

Geoff Pender: [00:13:59] Brandon, let me ask you in both the case of the ballot initiative and medical marijuana initiative. If and when the Legislature were to take action, there’s already much talk and debate, and it’s highly likely that the action in either case would not mirror the past ballot initiative process we had, our Initiative 65. They would come up with totally different things. They’re talking about perhaps making the ballot initiative where voters cannot change the constitution, but only the state statute. Do you think there’s a political danger if the Legislature comes up with something too totally different of what voters had already approved?

Brandon Jones: [00:14:47] I don’t think there’s any question, Geoff, that, yeah, that would be true. That would be a difficult political posture for elected officials to take. I think we have all seen as our state has sort of solidified behind conservative leadership and sometimes what happens—and this isn’t new to Mississippi.

This happens at the federal level and at state levels and has gone on since time immemorial, but sometimes when one political party or one political piece of the puzzle gets such overwhelming power in a state, as we have in Mississippi, now they start to feel 10 feet tall and bulletproof, and I think they start to think, “Well, 73% is big, but if we just sit, give it back to them in some form or fashion, they’ll be fine with that cause we’re overwhelmingly popular.”  Well, it’s part of the reason you do polls to figure out how true is the narrative that’s running through their minds. And what we saw was,  you know, Governor Reeves is at a tough position. Like if these numbers are and we believe they are correct, 48% favorability to 46%, favorability, that’s not 10 feet tall and bulletproof. That means you can make a misstep that can cost you your job, even if it’s to another Republican or whoever the case may be. And I think similarly, the Legislature can get a little cocky. They can start to feel that they can do things that maybe the voters have already instructed them not to do. 

For the life of me, I don’t know why the Legislature and the leadership in the state wouldn’t when people coalesce around a policy issue, as clearly as they have this one, just sort of step back and let that be the thing. Injecting themselves into this issue in the way that they did last session and in the way that they appear poised to do this time, I think it’s perilous. I think it could be a problem. I mean 73%. It’s a big number. I mean, and if you come back with something that doesn’t resemble that and the people who put the sweat equity into getting that initial idea past the goal line and your idea doesn’t look like theirs, that’s trouble. But, you know, look. The group that’s in power now, the current leadership in the state of Mississippi, have defied the odds in terms of what you think might be harmful. And we have individual politicians who you say, well, they would seem vulnerable. And then when all the votes are cast are not.

And so, you know, I will say that I guess I understand why some folks doing this calculus sort of feel like they can ride this out, but I do think this is one of those moments where the interest is so high. It could be dangerous. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:17:14] I’m interested now. What are you referring to where they’ve kind of bucked the odds. Are you talking about— I mean, I guess you mean issues, positions they’ve taken that are not popular with the public. Are you referencing Medicaid expansion? 

Brandon Jones: [00:17:27] Yeah. I mean, I guess the one that’s just right on the tip of the tongue for me is Medicaid expansion because we’ve seen conservative state after conservative state find their way to Medicaid expansion, including Mike Pence’s state of Indiana. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:17:38] Are we seeing polls in Mississippi? 

Brandon Jones: [00:17:40] We’ve seen polls in Mississippi where it’s overwhelmingly, you know, something people are interested in. So I guess that’s the one that comes to mind, but I think if we dug deeper  and thought about it a little bit, we would remember times where, you know, the feeling and sentiment on the ground seemed pretty clear and the Legislature just kinda decided to do its own thing.

Geoff Pender: [00:17:58] Brandon, one more thing. This is kind of a broad question, more philosophical. You know, some people point out that with ballot initiative, there’s a danger to direct democracy. We have a representative democracy for a reason, so we don’t have mob rules. How do you juxtapose that with this, what appears to be a grassroots push to reinstate ballot initiative?  

Brandon Jones: [00:18:23] Yeah, I’m sensitive to that argument. I’ve heard it referred to as Barabbas’ Law before, and you want to be careful at how how much of that you get into. I think in Mississippi, it’s worth noting that we have the most restrictive ballot initiative process in the country.

So there are so many safeguards and, and some might say, “Well, one of them just worked. The Supreme Court knocked it down after it passed.” But you know, the process you have to go through to get the question certified and then to get it where you are in a position to start collecting signatures and then the harrowing signature process, whether you’re talking about four congressional districts or five is considerable in the cost and sweat equity that goes into that is considerable. And then you have to cross this threshold that is unlike any other electoral threshold we have in the state. So by the time you get to that, it’s been very challenging. I think Geoff, with those safeguards in place, people can have some confidence that you’re not getting something half cocked. Now we’re sitting in Mississippi, and we’re sitting in a state with a questionable pass on a race. We’re sitting in a place with a questionable past on a lot of public policy. We haven’t handled the poor in our state in a way that makes any sense at all.

And so I’m aware that there have been times when 73% of Mississippians could have voted for stuff that was horrible, and we just have to be honest about that. But I think the sentiment here is that there are moments when your government is simply not responsive and we give the government the opportunity in our current process to make a fix as the issue is coming at them. 

Don’t forget members of that Legislature could have adopted a medical marijuana solution before this ever hit the ballot in November. I think their math was Mississippi wasn’t ready to pass it. And then they were proved wrong to the tune of about 35% off their number. So I think that we have enough catches and enough ways to look at this that gives people in government an opportunity to self-correct. And look in the same way that I was mentioning a moment ago, sometimes you have a particular perspective that’s overwhelmingly in power. They might have a platform that by and large the people of the state like. You know, by and large we’re okay with this team. That’s our team. We like them, but it’s never been true that people have coalesced around an entire platform.

There might be a couple issues that they’re like, look, I’m not ready to vote for the other people on this yet, but I do care about that issue and I think this type of direct democracy offers that opportunity. I mean, clearly our leadership has been obstinate on some of these issues, but there’s an appetite for them.

And from a policy perspective, I, you know, I’m a policy guy. I think that gets us to a better spot. So, you know, I think there’s enough safeguards there, but I do hear that concern. And I do think that we’ve kind of factored that into our interesting process. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:21:21] Yeah. Another factor in Mississippi is having to be at Walmart in a parking lot in August gathering signatures. That’s hard. 

Brandon Jones: [00:21:29] That’s right. There’s nothing easy about this process. I think people you know, if you’ve never been a part of a signature gathering process, you ought to do it for at least a week just to see what it’s like. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:21:40] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it says something that we’ve had it, we had it since ’92 and there’s been two that made it all the way through the process in that time period.

Brandon Jones: [00:21:47] That’s right. That’s right.  That was another thing that kind of had me scratching my head at the Supreme Court , those folks that were concerned about this. You know, again, I say this and this may be a weird way of saying it, but we don’t have ballot initiative culture. Nothing to be afraid of yet.

I mean, it’s still a hard, hard goal line to get across. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:22:02] I want to change directions for just a second. If you’ll indulge me, I mentioned that you were in the Legislature and I just want to go back to your election in 2007, when you were elected to the Legislature and it was a unique time in the state’s history and that was maybe  the last sort of old time speaker’s race.

You don’t have speaker’s races like this now with policy partisan politics, but Jeff Smith, he was a Democrat was running against the incumbent Speaker Bill McCoy. Smith would run in with the support of all the Republicans at the time. The Republicans were still a minority in the Mississippi House at that time.

And he was running with all their support and the support of conservative Democrats. And you were running in what was viewed in Jackson county as a very Republican seat, an open seat and just to make a long story short, you won that election and McCoy won the speakership by 62 to 60. So if you had not won that election— I don’t know. We may still be voting. It was a tie at 61.  So just what were your recollections of that time period?

Brandon Jones: [00:23:06] Well,  my first moments in elected office were some of the most interesting moments of my life. I mean,  it felt like forever that morning, because remember it wasn’t just one vote.

Bobby Harrison: [00:23:16] Right.

Brandon Jones: [00:23:16] But I think about the people involved in that race. You know, we lost Speaker McCoy last year who is one of the most significant legislative leaders of this state whether you’re talking about public education or the development of the highway program, And so we lost a titan of Mississippi politics, and I think just last week they dedicated a portion of highway to him.

That was certainly appropriate.  And look I’ll just tell you, I don’t think he would mind me sharing this. Jeff Smith and I stay in touch. You know, Jeff was lobbying me pretty hard to vote for him. And I certainly wasn’t a personal animus towards him that caused me to vote the other way.

We actually have talked about this very issue because I asked him what he thought his folks over in the Republican Party might do about the initiative issue. So we’ve maintained a friendship. I’ll tell you it’s heady, Bobby and Geoff, for a guy who you know, coming out of Hurricane Katrina grew up in Pascagoula, had not really thought about running for this and then decided to, to win an election so narrowly as I did. You know, my community was clearly equally divided on the question of me. So one of the first calls I get is from Governor Haley Barbour to ask me to vote for Jeff Smith. Yeah. And, and any of you who have heard Governor Barbour or studied him, know that you’re dealing with one of the wildest, smartest you know, most persuasive politicians in the world.

And I remember standing in my backyard having this conversation and I thought, “You know I’m not gonna beat this guy in a battle of wits over Mississippi politics. I’m going to say as little as I can and be as respectful as I can and move on along.” But voting for the speaker, Bobby, was not a hard decision for me.

I think Speaker McCoy was a person whose politics appealed to me, even though we could not have come from farther different parts of the state. I come from Southeast Mississippi. He’s from Northeast Mississippi. It’s about a seven and a half hour drive to get there, to get between those places. 

But this was a guy who believed deeply in addressing the actual emerging problems of the state. And that was something that really fueled his whole process. And  I saw that enacted many times after I got elected, but in the moment, talking to him, getting to know his passion, getting to know what his track record was in that body, it was just not a hard call. We were philosophically aligned, and  I was pleased to support them and really honored to try to be a part of leadership with him for four years. But the moments themselves were harrowing. People can appreciate what it’s like to have a close speaker’s race.

The vote count changed by the hour. There were a lot of frantic phone calls going along between people who’d been in the chamber for 20 years. As people know, we don’t have term limits in Mississippi. So some of these folks had been there for quite some time. My freshmen group, which was a big freshman class— I mean, people remember that class.

There were a lot of us. We apparently were not the easiest votes to count because some of those changed the morning of the election and the speaker’s race. It was tough. You know, now it’s this monolithic thing. Like the Republicans have such overwhelming control that they go into a room, somebody tells them who’s going to be the speaker, they let them yell into a pillow for a minute, and then they go out there and that’s who the speaker is. And you never know who thought anything about it. This thing was the street brawl. Yeah. I mean, this thing, there was no coercion of any kind of the kind we see today. I mean, there was certainly persuasion. There were certainly attempts at coercion, but this thing was a free for all.

And you had such uncertainty that, like I said, tied vote. I know it was at least once.

Bobby Harrison: [00:26:51]  Twice. 

Brandon Jones: [00:26:52] Yeah. So two tied votes and think about that. You, you just don’t have that type of political uncertainty. And so as a person who is newly elected, first time there, overwhelmingly Republican district voting for a Democratic speaker that my predecessor Republican Carmel Wells had voted for, but Republicans smelled blood in the water and they saw that they were about to have a chance to take over state leadership.

And they knew that the time was right to strike at leadership. And so there’s no question that the prevailing political winds in my district were to vote for Jeff Smith, who was perceived as the gateway drug to Republican leadership in the House. And so it was wild, and there were friends of mine who are still friends to this day.

I’ve used friends kind of in quotations who were up in the gallery from Jackson County that were yelling down, that were passing notes. But you know,  I think part of what really helped me, Bobby, was when, you know, winning is not assured. 

 Secretary Watson was on the show. He and I ran at the same time. He was running in the Senate. I was running in the House. Our districts were fairly well overlapping, except he went off into the county. I remember asking Michael while we were running, “How do you feel about this?” And he was a hundred percent sure. He was taking on a 20-year incumbent.

 Michael knew he was going to win. There was never any doubt. He asked me the same question. I said, “Who knows? I mean, I might have to really pull something out of a hat here to win it.”  I felt like I was sort of prepared for the uncertainty cause it was like, “I know that four years is probably the best I’m going to get. I’m going to have to swing away. I get this one opportunity. I’m going to use it.”  So if you’ll remember, as scary and weird as that whole thing was, I think I was one of the first speeches after the speaker’s race was settled because we had a rules fight right after that. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:28:47] That’s right. 

Brandon Jones: [00:28:47] And I was fighting against this committee. Now I’ll tell you I’m a lawyer by training, but I didn’t know a whole heck of a lot about the procedure of the House, but I knew I didn’t want to stand sentinel over my desk so that Mark Formby or Greg Snowden or Philip Gunn could call us into a committee at any moment. So I fought like crazy against that.

So it’s a wild time. I mean, it’s not that long ago, but it feels like different generations. 

Bobby Harrison: [00:29:10] And just a little backstory. You mentioned the freshmen class and some people change their votes along the way, but each side had packs where they were supporting candidates, who they thought would be loyal to their speakers candidate.

And if I remember correctly, there was some dispute about whether to waste money on you because they felt there was such a strong Republican district. Do I have that, right? 

Brandon Jones: [00:29:33] Yeah. You did. You do. You know, I was not one of the ones that got the most  assistance, but ultimately the decision to give me some was, I think in my understanding, came from the speaker. But even more significant than that, Bobby, and in the same vein you know, I was a member of the Mississippi Association for Justice, this lawyer’s group, and they decided not to put money in. And they put money in races everywhere.

And I remember having a long conversation with Meredith Cox at the convention. I was like, “Man, I’m a member. I’m on the Board of Governors. I’m a practicing lawyer. I’m in good standing. I do this work every day.” And he just said, “Look, Bubba, you can’t win. And Jerry Nash, doesn’t think you’d win either.” 

Bobby Harrison: [00:30:11] You know who thought you could win? Carmel, your predecessor.

I remember her being in the Capitol during that campaign. And she was not happy about it. She said, “He has a chance to win.”

Brandon Jones: [00:30:21] I don’t think she said that with any excitement. Yeah. Well look, as you both know these races in the Legislature, we have 122 of them across the state.

It’s not that incredibly big, and so shoe leather does matter. You can still win races. I know it’s a little bit more divided than maybe it’s ever been. And partisanship has a huge shadow over this stuff.  As I think about what it took to win, I think about walking through that district two and three times, and man, I’m glad to be sitting in an air conditioned space with you guys.

Bobby Harrison: [00:30:53] It was interesting to talk about this poll and about your unique history and state politics. Thanks for being here and have a good week. 

Brandon Jones: [00:31:00] Yeah. Thank you. 

Geoff Pender: [00:31:01] Thanks, Brandon.

Adam Ganucheau: [00:31:09]

As we cover the biggest political stories in the state, you don’t want to miss an episode of The Other Side. We’ll bring you more reporting from every corner of the state, sharing the voices of Mississippians and how they’re impacted by the news. So, what do we need from you, the listener? We need your feedback and support.

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Subscribe to our weekly podcast on your favorite podcast app or stream episodes online at MississippiToday.org/the-other-side. For the Mississippi Today team I’m Adam Ganucheau. The Other Side is produced by Mississippi Today and engineered by Blue Sky Studios. We hope you’ll join us for our next episode.

The post Transcript: Poll warns of possible political consequences if initiative process not fixed appeared first on Mississippi Today.

Brandon Jones, policy director for the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Action Funds, talks with Mississippi Today’s Bobby Harrison and Geoff Pender about results of the poll his organization commissioned on reinstating the ballot initiative process that was struck down by Mississippi Supreme Court.

Stream the episode here and read the transcript here.

The post Podcast: Poll warns of possible political consequences if initiative process not fixed appeared first on Mississippi Today.