The state’s legislative watchdog agency has released a report on Mississippi’s troubled, dilapidated state park system after lawmakers this year debated but failed to reach agreement on funding and fixes.
The Joint Legislative Committee on Performance, Evaluation and Expenditure Review (PEER) found Mississippi’s park system pales to those of surrounding states that capitalize on them to draw tourists and generate income. PEER found that only five of Mississippi’s 25 state parks turn a profit. The system on whole is losing money when about $4 million a year in state general fund spending is backed out, the state lacks any strategic marketing of them and parks are in need of major renovations with no real plan to fund or carry out the maintenance.
PEER found that surrounding states have dedicated sources of revenue for parks, which Mississippi lacks, and that these states spend at least double what Mississippi does on state parks, with Tennessee spending seven times more. As a result, Mississippi parks generate only a fraction of the revenue and tourism of surrounding states.
The PEER report recommended lawmakers consider removing the park system from the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks, and either creating a new agency to oversee tourism, state parks and history; placing parks under the Mississippi Development Authority’s tourism division; or creating a stand-alone agency to oversee parks.
The report also said lawmakers could consider privatization of state parks services, like states such as Florida have done. This prospect has drawn heated debate in the Legislature, with some lawmakers fearing private developers would “cherry pick” the best state parks that could turn profits leaving others neglected, or that privatization would turn parks into expensive resorts and limit public access.
State parks spending has been cut by nearly 60% since 2000, and staffing by 70%. The Mississippi Department of Wildlife Fisheries and Parks lacks manpower and money for even routine maintenance. The PEER report found that last year, 87 of 165 positions allotted the system were vacant, and that the state relies heavily on contract and seasonal workers for parks, which “creates a revolving door” of staff.
Some legislative leaders said improving and increasing funding for parks was a top priority for the Legislature in this year’s session, but proposals to address the issues died amid disagreement between the House and Senate. These included a sales tax diversion from sales at sporting goods stores to provide up to $20 million a year for conservation projects and parks and another measure to privatize some state parks or hand others off to counties and cities.
As Mississippi’s park system has floundered, other states have cashed in on state park tourism, with the COVID-19 pandemic driving demand for RV-ing, camping and outdoor vacationing and recreation.
A strong majority oppose last week’s state Supreme Court decision striking down both a voter initiative that approved medical marijuana and the entire process that Mississippians can gather signatures to place an issue on the ballot for voters to decide.
The poll also found strong support for Gov. Tate Reeves calling a special session to give legislators the opportunity to reverse the actions of the Supreme Court. While Reeves has not called a special session, a diverse set of politicians ranging from Republicans Speaker Philip Gunn and Secretary of State Michael Watson to Democratic Northern District Public Service Commissioner Brandon Presley to House Democratic Leader Robert Johnson have voiced support for one. Lt. Gov. Delbert Hosemann, who presides over the Senate, has not commented on whether he supports a special session.
The Supreme Court took the rare step of releasing the controversial decision on Friday afternoon. The poll was conducted quickly after that by Mississippi-based Chism Strategies. Chism had done work for supporters of the medical marijuana initiative that was approved by voters this past November.
The poll found almost 60.9% of respondents opposed the Supreme Court decision while 22.3% support it. In addition, 59.6% support the governor calling a special session on medical marijuana while 20.2% oppose such an effort.
Of the 905 Mississippians polled, 69.3% voted in favor of medical marijuana this past November while 25.2% opposed the initiative. On the November ballot, there were two medical marijuana initiatives: the citizen-sponsored proposal and a legislative alternative. The first question on the ballot asked voters whether they approved either. In November, 68.5% of voters said they did support one of the two, correlating closely to the 69.2% in the poll saying they voted in favor of medical marijuana.
The poll was of landline and cell phone users and was weighted to reflect likely 2022 general election results, meaning a majority of respondents normally vote Republican. The poll had a margin of error 3.26%.
Brad Chism of Chism Strategies said he was surprised how many Mississippians knew about the Supreme Court ruling.
“It is a brush fire,” Chism said. “It crosses party lines… People are mad the court would do what they did.”
The poll found that almost 52% are “somewhat” or “much” less likely to vote for a legislator who opposed medical marijuana, while just under 30% were “much” or “somewhat” more likely to support a candidate opposing the legalization of medical marijuana.
The poll also found 69.7% supported the Legislature approving a medical marijuana program that matches the one approved by voters in November. A plurality — 45% to 27.1% — support the impeachment of the Supreme Court justices who supported the ruling.
The Supreme Court ruling came in response to a lawsuit filed by the city of Madison and its mayor, Mary Hawkins Butler. The lawsuit alleged the initiative process should be voided because the Constitution requires the signatures to be gathered equally from five congressional districts as they were configured in 1990. In 2000, the state lost a U.S. House seat based on U.S. Census data, rendering it impossible to gather the signatures as mandated in the Constitution, the lawsuit argued.
BILOXI — At the Beau Rivage, even a job fair comes with the added razzle-dazzle expected from one of the state’s most prominent casinos: sequin-clad show girls, an ice sculpture and a musical performance.
And, of course, several dozen open jobs and on-the-spot interviews.
Service industry workers for the state’s casinos are in high demand. If there was ever a time for some of the state’s top revenue earners to put on a show to lure in potential hires, it’s now.
With COVID-19 vaccinations widely available and the busy summer season quickly approaching, businesses across tourism-focused coastal Mississippi have “Help Wanted” signs in their windows. Despite the number of open positions, some workers have shown they’re not eager to return to hospitality and service jobs.
“People are more or less demanding to go back to work when it’s safe, for one, and when they feel fairly paid,” said Sondra Collins, senior economist with the Mississippi University Research Center. “Some have used the pandemic to gain new skills and feel confident asking for more.”
That hesitancy could help push up the pay of Mississippi jobs, which has consistently had among the lowest median hourly wages in the country. Collins said the market forcing wages up could be the one positive thing to come from the pandemic.
It’s the lower paying jobs from restaurant bussers to housekeepers that Mississippi largest casinos and resorts are vying to fill. Managers and owners are figuring out how to respond to staffing challenges. Many have praised Gov. Tate Reeves’ decision to stop the extra $300 per week in unemployment aid next month, hoping the move will bring workers back.
“I started here at the front desk of the hotel,” Beau Rivage’s human resources director Kimberly Pelaez told the job fair crowd gathered in the property’s ballroom last week. “I turned a college job into a career that I love.”
The Beau Rivage used its showgirls to entertain job seekers at a recent job fair. Current employees of the Biloxi casino hosted a raffle and handed out prizes for attendees. Credit: Sara DiNatale / Mississippi Today
That was the theme of the Thursday expo: an entry level job at the Beau could lead to a long-term, stable career. The casino and hotel’s ballroom hosted 265 job seekers, and 70 people were offered positions that day. The Beau Rivage still had another 80 open positions posted to its website on Monday.
Despite the pandemic and the struggle to fill critical service industry jobs, Mississippi’s casinos haven’t slowed down much.
Gaming revenue across the industry dipped about 18% last year because of the pandemic, which closed down the businesses for about two months. By the summer of 2020, gaming revenue started nearing pre-pandemic amounts. People were bored, had stimulus checks and still wanted to gamble.
This March, the state’s gaming commission reported the monthly gross revenue from the state’s casinos was the highest it has been since 2009 at more than $248 million.
“We had what was a very strong March and a very, very strong April,” said Scott King, the assistant general manager and vice president of resort operations at the Golden Nugget in Biloxi. “Going into the summer, we have a lot of momentum.”
King said the staffing shortages started back when the casinos first reopened, but they’ve continued to get worse as business gets better. In the spring his team would have up to 10 interviews scheduled for a day, but sometimes only two people would show up.
Golden Nugget now has a job referral program for employees that can earn them bonuses. The casino has raised some of its wages and, like the Beau Rivage, says it’s emphasizing the ability to get promotions and turn an entry-level job into a higher paying career. King said when considering tips, there are a number of positions, like card dealers, that pay more than $20 per hour.
Larry Gregory, the president of the Mississippi Gaming and Hospitality Association, said the jobs casinos need filled are across the board from food and beverage services to gaming tables. He applauded the governor’s move to end the additional money in federal unemployment, and he thinks the move will push workers back into open jobs.
Unemployment in Mississippi pays up to $235 per week without the additional money per week from the federal program. With minimum wage at $7.25, workers collecting unemployment could make more collecting the combined benefits than in entry-level jobs available in the service industry.
Collins, the economist, says there are several factors contributing to service industry workers not rushing back to jobs. Many of the workers are women, she said, who deal with the brunt of childcare — especially if they live in districts that chose to stay virtual this school year because of the pandemic.
There are also workers who are still cautious of putting their health at risk, or are just getting their second dose of the vaccine and have been waiting to be fully vaccinated before facing customers again. She said the number of people getting vaccinated is more likely to encourage workers back than the change in unemployment pay.
Marlene Patrick-Cooper, the president of Unite Here Local 23, represents casino and hospitality workers in Mississippi and across the South. She said some of her union’s members adapted after they lost their jobs last March. Now they feel more in control of their income, even if it means working three jobs at once.
“A lot of folks felt burned,” she said. “The industry really abandoned them at the pandemic’s onset.”
Those who are back working at the hotels and restaurants are now dealing with the added stress of having to meet the demand from customers. There are often not enough workers to serve the surge of customers excited to be vaccinated and on the town.
But even non-people-oriented jobs are feeling the upstick in stress, too.
Hotels shifted away from daily housekeeping in rooms to lessen person-to-person contact during the pandemic. Patrick-Cooper said the result has been fewer house keepers tasked with cleaning up messier rooms.
The union rep agrees staffing needs to pick up for the summer rush — and rooms need to go back to being cleaned more often. But to get there? Employers need to step up, she said.
“If employers want to paint the picture that folks make too much on unemployment, what that tells me is they don’t think workers should get much and they have been getting away with having poverty jobs,” she said.
Patrick-Cooper says she’s seen a few casinos start to raise wages in response to the market, but she has yet to see it become an industry-wide shift in the region.
About 265 people attended a recent job fair at the Beau Rivage. The Biloxi casino and hotel has dozens of jobs open as demand grows for service workers across Gulf Coast. Credit: Sara DiNatale, Mississippi Today / Mississippi Today
Back at the Beau Rivage ballroom, 27-year-old Joseph Taft of Biloxi was in a dress shirt and slacks ready to impress during an on-the-spot interview. He has been out of work for just over two weeks. He said he was a busser at a smaller casino in town that reordered its bussing and serving staff. His job was cut.
Before the pandemic, he was working at the Beau Rivage’s buffet. He lost that job when the casino closed at the start of the pandemic. He then traveled with a friend to Texas to do manual labor cleaning up an oil spill.
When Taft returned to Mississippi, it took months for him to land that bussing job, where he was only making $6.50 an hour. He was paid below minimum wage because of the tips he earned in addition to set wage. But as a busser, he was splitting tips with servers.
He said he was never left with much and was still mowing lawns and taking odd jobs to make ends meet. He hopes getting back into the Beau Rivage could lead to the stability and advancement he craves.
“I don’t want to be flipping burgers,” he said. “I want a career.”
He had planned to apply to get back in food service at the casino, but was persuaded to consider room cleaning. While training he’d make $11.32 an hour, he said. Once he’s on his own, he will clean two rooms an hour to make a $13 per hour wage.
It’d be a larger paycheck than he was used to. And, so far, it seems like he landed the job. He’s just awaiting the final phone call.
House Speaker Philip Gunn says he supports Gov. Tate Reeves calling a special session to allow legislators to reinstate the state’s initiative process after the Mississippi Supreme Court struck it down in a landmark 6-3 decision last week.
“We 100% believe in the right of the people to use the initiative process to express their views on public policy,” Gunn said in a statement. “If the legislature does not act on an issue that the people of Mississippi want, then the people need a mechanism to change the law. I support the governor calling us into a special session to protect this important right of the people.”
Gunn did not comment on whether he believes medical marijuana also should be taken up in a special session if Reeves calls one. The Supreme Court struck down an initiative where voters approved medical marijuana in the same opinion where it voided the whole initiative process.
Lt. Gov. Delbert Hosemann, who presides over the Senate, has been unavailable to comment on questions from Mississippi Today about whether he wanted the governor to call a special session.
But Secretary of State Michael Watson, who oversees state elections and the initiative process, said via social media he also supports the governor calling a special session.
“I strongly encourage Gov. Reeves to call a special session to address this issue,” Watson said, adding that the issue of medical marijuana also should be taken up during a special session. Watson also said the Legislature should take steps to ensure initiatives approved earlier by voters are not rendered void by the Supreme Court decision released Friday afternoon.
Earlier Monday, Mississippi Today reported discussions between the governor’s office and legislative leaders about a special in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision that voided both the medical marijuana initiative approved by voters in November and the initiative process itself.
While Hosemann has been unavailable for comment, Senate President Pro Tem Dean Kirby said, “I would not be opposed to a special session” to take up the issue of medical marijuana. He pointed out the Senate passed a bill earlier this year in the 2021 session that would have put in place a medical marijuana program if the Supreme Court struck down the medical marijuana initiative. The House did not take up the Senate proposal, opting to wait for the Supreme Court ruling.
Kirby said he had not studied the issue of whether there should be an effort in special session to take up fixing the entire initiative process.
Rep. Robert Johnson, D-Natchez, the House minority leader, who was critical of last week’s Supreme Court ruling, also said he would favor a special session to take up both medical marijuana and a fix for the overall initiative process.
The Supreme Court ruling came in response to a lawsuit filed by the city of Madison and its mayor, Mary Hawkins Butler. The lawsuit alleged the initiative process should be voided because the Constitution requires the signatures to be gathered equally from five congressional districts as they were configured in 1990. In 2000, the state lost a U.S. House seat based on U.S. Census data, rendering it impossible to gather the signatures as mandated in the Constitution, the lawsuit argued.
The state’s highest court agreed.
Reeves’ office has not responded to questions from Mississippi Today. But Bailey Martin, a spokesperson for Reeves, told the Daily Journal in Tupelo, “Like most Mississippians, Gov. Reeves is interested and intrigued by the Supreme Court’s decision on the recent ballot initiative. He and his team are currently digesting the Court’s 58 page opinion and will make further comment once that analysis is complete.”
Without a special session, the earliest that the Legislature could approve a medical marijuana program would be in January when the 2022 session begins. And it would take even longer to reinstate the initiative process since it would require a two-thirds vote of both chambers of the Legislature and then approval by voters presumably during the November 2022 general election.
During a special session, legislators could have an opportunity to create a medical marijuana program and perhaps to fix the language in the state’s initiative process that resulted in last week’s Supreme Court ruling.
Mississippi’s elected transportation commissioners have received a handful of resumes for executive director of the Mississippi Department of Transportation, including from Gov. Tate Reeves’ Chief of Staff Brad White, former chairman of the state Republican Party.
Other applicants include Jeff Altman, a longtime MDOT employee who’s serving as interim director of the agency, and Heath Hall, owner of a public relations firm who has served as a consultant to Madison County and its sheriff’s department. Hall was briefly deputy administrator for the Federal Railroad Administration but abruptly resigned after being accused of improperly being paid by the federal agency and Madison County at the same time.
White formerly served as chief of staff for U.S. Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith and the late Sen. Thad Cochran. He was formerly a chief of staff for the state auditor’s office and served as chairman of the state Republican Party from 2008 to 2011. He served as an assistant to former Transportation Commissioner Dick Hall.
Longtime MDOT Director Melinda McGrath announced her resignation in March, under political fire from state lawmakers. Lawmakers, particularly in the Senate, have been critical of MDOT for cost overruns, delays on projects and other issues and proposed a bevy of legislation this session aimed at stripping the agency of money and authority. Lawmakers stripped MDOT of its commercial traffic enforcement division.
McGrath, an engineer who worked for MDOT for more than 30 years, was praised as an administrator and road builder — including as a lead engineer for hundreds of millions of dollars in work after Hurricane Katrina’s destruction in South Mississippi. But she appeared to struggle with the political side of running the state’s massive transportation industry. She famously clashed with now Gov. Tate Reeves, after she said the agency was receiving political pressure to build an unneeded $2-million frontage road connecting Reeves’ gated neighborhood to nearby shopping and dining.
MDOT’s director is supposed to answer directly to a three-member, elected commission, not state lawmakers or other politicians, but the realpolitik is lawmakers are historically keenly interested in, and prone to meddle with, road building and maintenance and the running of MDOT.
Central District Transportation Commissioner Willie Simmons on Monday said the agency as of its deadline more than a week ago has received about five resumes for the director position, all from people in-state. He said no schedule for interviews or picking a replacement has been set, but said that would likely be a discussion at next week’s Transportation Commission meeting.
Whomever the elected commission picks as director is subject to state Senate confirmation in the next legislative session.
Simmons said he doesn’t believe an MDOT director has to be an engineer or have extensive road building experience as long as they have administrative skills to run the agency.
Mississippi is the last transportation department in the nation to elect its transportation commission. In the past there has been much debate over switching to an appointed commission, in an effort to take politics out of road building, but such moves have never gained much momentum.
The hiring of engineer McGrath a decade ago was also aimed at removing politics from an agency that had seen scandal and political battles under her predecessor, former Natchez Mayor Butch Brown.
There were questions about the agency’s purchase and use of helicopters and expensive remodeling of MDOT headquarters — which got the nickname of “Taj Mahal.” There were also questions about taxpayer funded trips to Budapest by MDOT officials. Feuds between the elected commissioners and director resulted in one commission being banished from headquarters to an office in a trailer, and having one of his secretaries fired by the others.
Brown back then called the federal secretary of transportation an “a–hole” at a national meeting, faced questions about a relative profiting from MDOT-related programs and waged political war with legislative officials. He was arrested for passing out drunk at a casino slot machine in Biloxi, and had to take anger management classes.
A special legislative session is being discussed by political leaders in the wake of last week’s explosive ruling by the Mississippi Supreme Court striking down both the state’s new medical marijuana program and the entire initiative process where citizens can gather signatures to place issues on the ballot for voters to decide.
Sources close to the issue said that lawmakers have broached the issue of a special session with Gov. Tate Reeves’ office.
Without a special session, the earliest that the Legislature could enact a medical marijuana program would be in January when the 2022 session begins. And it would take even longer to reinstate the initiative process since it would require a two-thirds vote of both chambers of the Legislature and then approval by voters presumably during the November 2022 general election.
During a special session, legislators could have an opportunity to create a medical marijuana program and perhaps to fix the language in the state’s initiative process that resulted in last week’s Supreme Court ruling.
Efforts to garner comments from Reeves, House Speaker Philip Gunn and Lt. Gov Delbert Hosemann, who presides over the Senate, have been unsuccessful thus far. On the day of the Supreme Court ruling, Bailey Martin, a spokesperson for Reeves, told the Daily Journal in Tupelo, “Like most Mississippians, Gov. Reeves is interested and intrigued by the Supreme Court’s decision on the recent ballot initiative. He and his team are currently digesting the Court’s 58 page opinion and will make further comment once that analysis is complete.”
Senate President Pro Tem Dean Kirby, R-Pearl, said he has not heard discussions about a special session, but said, “I would not be opposed to a special session” to take up the issue of medical marijuana. He pointed out the Senate passed a bill earlier this year in the 2021 session that would have put in place a medical marijuana program if the Supreme Court struck down the medical marijuana initiative. The House did not take up the Senate proposal, opting to wait for the Supreme Court ruling.
Kirby said he had not studied the issue of whether there should be an effort in special session to take up fixing the entire initiative process.
Rep. Robert Johnson, D-Natchez, the House minority leader, who was critical of last week’s Supreme Court ruling, said he would support a special session to take up both issues.
In a 6-3 ruling last week, the Mississippi Supreme Court struck down the medical marijuana initiative that was approved overwhelmingly by voters in November and in the process voided the state’s initiative that has been in effect since 1992.
In the process of voiding the process, six initiatives that were at varying stages of trying to garner the required number of signatures were killed. Those efforts were:
Expanding Medicaid.
Enacting early voting.
Enacting term limits.
Legalizing recreational marijuana.
Giving voters the opportunity to restore the old flag that contained the Confederate battle emblem in its design.
Replacing the 1890 flag that contained the Confederate battle emblem. That already has been done by the Legislature.
The Supreme Court ruling came in response to a lawsuit filed by the city of Madison and its mayor, Mary Hawkins Butler. The lawsuit alleged the initiative process should be voided because the Constitution requires the signatures to be gathered equally from five congressional districts as they were configured in 1990. In 2000, the state lost a U.S. House seat based on U.S. Census data, rendering it impossible to gather the signatures as mandated in the Constitution, the lawsuit argued.
The state’s highest court agreed.
Also at issue is two initiatives that passed in 2011 where the signatures were gathered from the original five congressional districts and whether they will be efforts to challenge those proposals. Those initiatives enacted a requirement to have a government-issued photo ID to vote and a prohibition on the government taking private land for the use of another private entity. After voters approved placing the voter identification issue in the Constitution, it also was approved as general law by the Legislature. So, if the voter ID initiative is struck down, it is not clear how it would impact the general law.
When asked if the Southern Poverty Law Center might challenge the voter ID initiative based on the Supreme Court ruling, Brandon Jones, policy director with the group, said “Like a lot of other folks, we are in the very early stages of considering options for voters and the issues impacted by last week’s ruling. We haven’t made any decision yet.”
SPLC also would have been heavily involved in the effort to pass a Medicaid expansion initiative had it not be halted by the Supreme Court ruling.
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday said it will review Mississippi’s ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy — serving as the first opportunity for the 6-3 conservative-majority court to challenge Roe v. Wade.
The 15-week ban, passed by state lawmakers in 2018 and immediately blocked by lower federal courts, will provide one of the first reproductive rights cases argued before the Supreme Court since Justice Amy Coney Barrett was confirmed in 2020. The 6-3 conservative majority is widely expected to curtail access to abortion.
Want more breaking news in your inbox?
Processing…
Thanks! You’ll receive a confirmation email in about an hour.
Whoops! There was an error and we couldn’t process your subscription. Please reload the page and try again.
“As the only abortion clinic left in Mississippi, we see patients who have spent week saving up the money to travel here and pay for childcare, for a place to stay, and everything else involved. If this ban were to take effect, we would be forced to turn many of those patients away, and they would lose the right to abortion in the state,” Diane Derziz, owner of Jackson Women’s Health Organization, the state’s sole abortion clinic, said in a statement. “Mississippi politicians have created countless barriers for people trying to access abortion, intentionally pushing them later in the pregnancy. It’s all part of their strategy to eliminate abortion access entirely.”
The court met 13 different times to consider taking the case, a move many legal analysts have called unprecedented. The taking of this case marks the first time since the landmark 1973 abortion rights case Roe v. Wade that the U.S. Supreme Court has taken up a a pre-viability ban case — a law that prohibits access to abortion based on the amount of time pregnant before the fetus is viable, or around 24 weeks when it is able to live outside the womb.
The authors of Mississippi’s abortion ban bill said their intent in 2018 for passing then the strictest-in-the-nation abortion ban was that the U.S. Supreme Court could challenge Roe v. Wade.
“Assuming this bill were to become law, these challenges take two to three years to make their way up to the Supreme Court,” state Sen. Joey Fillingane, the Republican who authored the bill, said at the time. “The United States Supreme Court … has indicated that the state has a couple of interests when it comes to regulating abortion. One is protecting the health and life of the mother. Another is protecting the potentiality of human life.”
The only abortion clinic in Mississippi, which provides abortions until 16 weeks, sued the state after Republican Gov. Phil Bryant signed the law in 2018. The case has been in the federal court appeals process since then.
Legal precedent dictates that states do have legitimate interests in restricting abortion, but that states cannot outright prohibit abortions before viability, nor require an “undue burden” on women seeking an abortion. Courts have said Mississippi’s law banning abortion after 15 weeks does not meet the viability standard. The state has argued that the law is not a ban, and that the “undue burden” standard should come into factor.
If Roe is overturned or its scope limited, abortion would not immediately become illegal across the U.S. But it could allow states to ban or continue to severely limit it.
Both the state’s 2018 15-week law and subsequent stricter 2019 6-week law were ruled unconstitutional twice in the last two years — by both a U.S. District Court and the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals.
After the New Orleans-based federal appeals court upheld the lower ruling by also overturning both Mississippi’s 15-week and 6-week bans in 2019 and 2020. Attorney General Lynn Fitch petitioned the Supreme Court to take the case, citing state’s interests in regulating abortion.
The Center for Reproductive Rights, which represents Jackson Women’s Health Organization, responded in August by asking the Court to deny hearing the case based on long-standing precedent. Fitch filed again in October, after the high court three times postponed their conference to decide to take the case or not — twice after Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg’s death — pointing to two recent cases that differently interpreted the court’s last abortion case, June Medical vs Russo that allowed an abortion clinic to stay open.
Per precedent, states can regulate abortion before viability, but not outright ban it. Previously, Mississippi has argued that the so-called balancing test should apply in this case — weighing the burdens and benefits of the law.
Every federal court that has heard the case has said that doesn’t apply because based on the nature of the law, an outright ban is unconstitutional regardless of the state’s interests or benefits. Essentially, a regulation that limits choice, such as other laws in Mississippi that require two doctor’s visits and waiting periods for the procedure, merit the benefit or burden test. Outright bans that eliminate choice for certain women are on their face unconstitutional and don’t warrant the balancing test.
Editor’s note: This story is breaking and will be updated.
Mississippi Today this week will launch a reporting project aimed at asking why young Mississippians are leaving in droves and why others are staying. Sam Kapoor, a 28-year-old attorney in Jackson, joins Mississippi Today Editor-in-Chief Adam Ganucheau to discuss why she decided to stay in Mississippi.
Stream the episode here, or read a complete transcript of the interview below.
Mississippi Today: So if you’re listening to this podcast in the early part of the week of May 17th, you’re getting a sneak peek of something we’re really excited to roll out. Later this week, we’re launching a reporting project called NextGen Mississippi, focused all on young Mississippians. I’m not sure anyone would disagree that one of the biggest long term problems facing our state is that our young people are either leaving in droves or want to leave to start their lives and careers elsewhere. We, millennials and Gen Z in particular, are the next generations that will help decide Mississippi’s future and trajectory. The problems, the ones we all know so well, have long gone unacknowledged by all of our state’s leaders, really, and we’ve decided we want to do something about that. This reporting project will feature the voices of young Mississippians, and through boosting their perspectives and lived experiences, we will strive to hold our state’s leaders to account. We’ll ask those leaders tough questions, and we’ll work to make it impossible for them to continue to ignore these problems that we all know exist in the state. Anyways, we’re really excited about it. It’s going to be, I think, a really cool thing, and be on the lookout on our website later this week for more information about it. Like I said, you’ll see the roll out and you’ll also see some information about how you can get involved.
Mississippi Today: With all that being said, I’m excited about our guest today. Joining us is Sam Kapoor, a 28 year old attorney at Forman Watkins & Krutz here in Jackson. She grew up in Ridgeland, went to college at Ole Miss, and law school at Ole Miss. Sam, first off, thank you for being here. I guess, first question, just to kick us off, why did you decide to stay in Mississippi?
Sam Kapoor
Sam Kapoor: Okay, well, thank you for having me here, Adam. I guess, the reason I decided to stay sort of stems from how I got here in the first place. I’m a child of immigrants. My parents moved to America with me and my brother when we were about 12. I was 12, he was 14, and I remember when we first moved to Mississippi, it was not exactly what I imagined it would be like, so I was not super enthused. I wasn’t a big fan of Mississippi.
Mississippi Today: As like so many of us were, even if we were here from birth.
Sam Kapoor: Right, yeah. Also, 12 is a hard age, I think, in general.
Mississippi Today: For real.
Sam Kapoor: I remember thinking, “Oh, I can’t wait to get out of here,” when I first moved here, but I think, with age and maturity and time, I realized that there was so much more that Mississippi had to offer, and there’s so much that we can do to change Mississippi. I think the impact can be felt through young people in Mississippi a lot better.
Mississippi Today: Sure. I think a lot about, I grew up in Hazlehurst, so a little bit more rural than Ridgeland, but it is still a suburb of Jackson, technically. Jackson was obviously the hub for everything that we wanted to do, and entertainment, shopping, all that. I think a lot about my classmates growing up and people my age, really, for as long as I can remember, making comments about, like, “Oh, yeah, as soon as I graduate from high school I’m out of here. I’m going to move to a big city or I’m going to go to college out of state.” Was that your experience, too? Were your circles growing up, was that the common thread of the conversations and thinking about the future?
Sam Kapoor: Yeah, I would say yes. I noticed that most people that I’m friends with, that I grew up with here in Mississippi, they’ve gone. They’ve left. They went to take jobs in other states, pretty much right out of college. I kind of knew that I wanted to stay when I was in high school, so I was starting to apply for colleges, and as you know, college is extremely expensive.
Mississippi Today: Of course.
Sam Kapoor: That was one of the biggest considerations I had.
Mississippi Today: In-state tuition?
Sam Kapoor: In-state tuition, exactly. Honestly, our family did not have a lot of money, so I don’t think my parents could really even have afforded to send me to college, so staying here really changed my future, because otherwise, I don’t even qualify for student loans, so I couldn’t have gone anywhere but where I went. I could have only gone in state, so I really appreciate that I had that opportunity to do that. Even with law school, I applied to other law schools, but something just told me I need to stay here in Mississippi.
Mississippi Today: I think a lot about my college experience, too, because, like you, I went to Ole Miss, and for a lot of the same reasons. It was, obviously, the most affordable option. They had a couple programs that I thought I was interested when I was in high school. I didn’t end up sticking with those programs, but it just made the most sense. It was easy. The in-state tuition obviously was a huge factor there, but I think a lot about a lot of the native Mississippians who I met there, who I didn’t know in high school. I didn’t have that shared perspective of same upbringings or same region of the state or whatever, backgrounds, anything, but I just remember the thread being the same, just that high school that I just talked about. I don’t know. It would be great if we could stay in Mississippi after we graduate from college, but what are our chances of getting as good a job anywhere in Mississippi, Jackson in particular, maybe, versus Nashville, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans. You name the big city, that seemed to just be the drive for people. I don’t know. I think a lot about my high school graduating class being … It was a smaller school, so there were several people who obviously decided to stay behind and they’re probably still living where we grew up, and that’s great, but most of the people who did go to college, either in state or out of state, are gone now. Then, I look at my college class and it’s the same. Most of my best friends who were from Mississippi, who grew up in Mississippi, no longer live here. Was that something you saw when you were in college and law school, too?
Sam Kapoor: Yes. I remember talking to a lot of my friends about this, because we all wanted to leave. I went back and forth with wanting to leave and wanting to stay. By the time I was already in law school, though, I was like, “Okay, I’m staying. I’m here, I’m invested,” but I remember noticing all the friends trickle away and move away. A lot of it is an economic consideration. They’re just trying to find the best job in the best city that they can live in, and try to put their education to good use, so they’re just trying to pursue whatever field they’re in and whatever opportunities they can get, but I think it just worked out for me in a really great way, I think. I was in law school when I had these interviews with law firms. This is how typically law firms will interview law students when they’re still in law school, and then hire them as interns, and then they eventually will get an offer, sometimes, for a job. Things just sort of worked out for me where I got picked up by a regional firm, by a Jackson firm, and I was given the economic opportunity that I wanted right here in Jackson. Not to be tacky, but sometimes I compare my economic situation with that of my peers who left, and I think I’m still doing a little bit better off, based on the fact that I stayed and that I don’t have massive student loans or anything.
Mississippi Today: Sure. Yeah, I was going to ask you next, just sort of the appeal of Mississippi. We could talk all day about the problems and the issues that face young people in particular in this state, but I also think that if you can find it, there’s room to find a lane and succeed in it and do well. You just mentioned this kind of worked well for you. Some people, it doesn’t work for. There are many people who I know who tried to stay, who wanted to stay, and they couldn’t because of, it comes down to jobs, like you said. I think, for most people, it really is just an economic factor, but it doesn’t work, but it for you, Sam, outside of just the economics, what about Mississippi keeps you here?
Sam Kapoor: Several things keep me here, but one of the biggest things is family. My family lives in Jackson. I’m incredibly close to them, so that’s something that … I wish I could be more, I guess, modern, where I wouldn’t mind living on the opposite end of the continent from my parents, but I knew people who do that, I just wish I could be like that, but I guess I’m just not like that. That’s one thing, and another thing that I’ve really been thinking about lately is the community impact and how staying in Mississippi as a young professional, if you’re young, you’re educated, you have resources, you can actually do a lot more by staying than you could by leaving. Being able to stay, for instance, our law firm launched a program recently, it was a pro bono kind of deal, called the Diversity Pipeline Project, through Tougaloo College, and so we would take under represented pre-law students and give them the opportunity to shadow attorneys within the firm. I think that the kind of, I guess, information we were able to give them, the kind of training we were able to give them, over the course of three days, was really, I wouldn’t say life changing, because I don’t know if it changed their lives, but I think it’s really important. If I had something like that, that would have completely changed my law school perspective.
Mississippi Today: Yeah.
Sam Kapoor: I think that we can do a lot more, just because everything in Mississippi is smaller. Everyone knows each other.
Mississippi Today: That community really is important here, too. It’s like, community is sort of the thing that makes Mississippi work, in a way, and everyone looks out for each other. There’s times, obviously, where the community isn’t there, and we could go through the many examples of the problems in that regard, but you’re right. I think the community aspect of this place is unlike a lot of other places where we could move or we could choose to start our lives or build our careers or whatever. I think you’re exactly right. I call Mississippi a blank canvas, because it’s true. There are so few people, like you said, if you have some resources, if you’re young and educated and eager and have the ability and the means to do it, you can really, I think, do important work in a place that really needs that important work, and you can do it early. I’m a 28 year old journalist, and there aren’t many 28 year old journalists in America who have been able to write some of the impactful things that I’ve done. I could go down my list and I know you could go down your list and that’s the case for all of us, but then there’s this other dark side that I want to ask you about, where, I was having a conversation with a good friend of mine last week, actually, about Mississippi and what she thinks about all these things that we tell ourselves, basically.
Mississippi Today: It’s like, we tell ourselves that it’s a blank canvas or that there’s an opportunity to do really important community-oriented work and make an impact, but is that just something we’re telling ourselves to make ourselves feel better about being miserable in this place? That’s kind of an exaggeration for some people. For other people, I know it’s not. I’m interested in this reporting project that we’re launching and to tapping into some of that, for some of us who are here, who have decided to stay and do this work here, do our work here, start our lives, is there this sort of underlying feeling of regret or guilt about not trying to go elsewhere? My question for you, do you ever think about leaving?
Sam Kapoor: I do think about leaving. I’ve thought about it. I kind of go back and forth about it. There’s no way I can say that I just don’t think about it at all, but I just think that the good outweighs the bad, for me, at least. Every person’s situation is different, but I’ve found that my life is massively privileged and, this question is just making me think about my dad a lot and what he has to say about moving to Mississippi. He grew up incredibly poor and his, I guess, lesson, or his mantra that he’s always telling me and my brother is that we are so privileged to live here, and that even living in Mississippi is 100 million times better than living anywhere else in the world, because we have things here that we take so much for granted, that maybe people don’t consider Mississippi to be the best state to live in, but if you look at the world in general, Mississippi is actually …
Sam Kapoor: We have roads here. We’ve got running water. I don’t know. I know that sounds kind of silly, but I think that we’re massively privileged just to be here, and that it’s a gold mine. There’s so much that we can do in Mississippi. First of all, there’s just so much land. There’s so few people. Any idea you have for anything that you want to launch, the possibilities are endless, I think, if you have the resources. Something that my dad is always saying is that we’re just so privileged just to be here. I guess, I just don’t really see the … There’s no part of me that feels miserable about staying. I like it here. I know that if I had the opportunity to go somewhere else, I’m a young, educated attorney, if I really wanted to I could leave, but I don’t think IN would find the community that I love somewhere else.
Sam Kapoor: I don’t think I would find the family connection, obviously, and I honestly don’t know if I would make as much if I left, and considering with prices going up when you live somewhere else, so I guess I just don’t see …
Mississippi Today: Yeah, yeah. I think you made a really good point just know about positions of privilege and, as we’re thinking through our reporting series that I just talked about a little bit, we understand that everybody has different outlooks on life and different lived experiences, and we’re going to make sure to center not only the voices of people like me and you, Sam, who had the privilege of having enough resources to go to college and get our education and start our careers early, but also the many, many, many thousands of young Mississippians who hadn’t had any of that, and they didn’t have an opportunity to have any of that, and they may want to leave Mississippi more than anyone else, but they might not have the resources to do so.
Mississippi Today: Again, talking about young Mississippians, obviously, you can’t lump all young Mississippians in the same bucket, but we’re going to dig into a lot of that. I guess, thinking about something else you touched on is, you mentioned a gold mine, that’s another good illustration of what it could be. One question that I’ve been asking a lot of my friends is, if you were asked by a group of Mississippi high school kids, what is your pitch for staying in Mississippi? What would yours be? I’m just curious.
Sam Kapoor: Gosh, that’s really hard.
Mississippi Today: I know. I’m putting you on the spot here.
Sam Kapoor: I don’t know what my pitch would be. I guess, my biggest thing is that everything looks really exciting in other places, I’m sure, but if you really work at it and you stay here, the possibilities are so endless, because I look at what my parents had when they first moved to America, and what they have now, and they haven’t been here that long and it’s like we’ve basically changed an entire generation, wealth-wise. When I see that illustration in front of me, it’s really hard for me to say that that’s not possible for everyone, because, I know everyone’s got different experiences and different backgrounds and different set of circumstances, but when I see how my parents basically turned their life around with nothing, really, I just know that anyone can do it. If you just stay here and you work hard, there’s just so many opportunities.
Sam Kapoor: For instance, I don’t want to say this like a brag. I went to college at Ole Miss and I applied for a scholarship, and I was able to get a full ride to Ole Miss. After I finished college, I applied for scholarships when I went to law school, which, most people might not know, you can actually get scholarships for law school, and I was able to get a full ride to law school, as well. That, I guess, financial benefit, I just don’t think I could have gotten that if I’d gone to another state. Something I would tell high schoolers is, hey, you want to go to college, you don’t want to be saddled with student debt, try here first, and if you really hate it then consider leaving, but there’s so much more if you just stay and work at it, and there’s so many opportunities that, I wouldn’t say land in your lap, but if you work hard, people will notice, and because the community here is so small, you will get connected with the type of people that you want to be connected to.
Sam Kapoor: If you’re a journalist or you’re a lawyer, someone will know somebody and will help you, or you can ask for help and use that community network, and you can get a lot further with that than you could if you went to some random college on the other side of the country.
Mississippi Today: Sure. Well, it’s a great perspective. I think your story is a unique one in Mississippi, but also, I think, it’s a valuable one for a lot of people to hear. Sam, I couldn’t thank you enough for coming on and sharing a little bit of that with us. I could sit here and talk with you all day about this stuff. Our stories are two of tens, hundreds of thousands in Mississippi, and I’m just excited about this project we’re launching, and I can’t wait to share the perspectives of so many other people who are thinking about a lot of these same questions, but thank you for being our first. Really, really excited about what’s to come, but thank you for your time, Sam.
Sam Kapoor: Thank you, Adam. Thank you for having me.
