Eric J. Shelton, Mississippi Today/ Report for America
Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith leads Democrat Mike Espy in a new poll released just one week from Election Day.
Republican U.S. Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith has a 52% to 44% lead against Democratic challenger Mike Espy in a Civiqs poll released Tuesday morning — one of the few public polls released in advance of Tuesday’s general election.
The same poll has President Donald Trump winning 55% to 41% against former Vice President Joe Biden. The pollster, which has a B/C rating from the respected FiveThirtyEight, which rates national pollsters, sampled 507 Mississippians online using a national survey sample.
A poll in late September by the Tyson Group showed Hyde-Smith with just a 1 point lead against Espy, while an internal poll released earlier to Mississippi Today by the Espy campaign showed him down 5 points. A few other polls showed Hyde-Smith, running for her first full six-year term, with larger leads. She is viewed nationally as a solid favorite in the race.
In the 2018 special election to replace long-time Sen. Thad Cochran, who stepped down for health reasons, Espy garnered just under 47% of the vote as Hyde-Smith became the first woman elected to represent Mississippi in Congress.
Of the people who have voted early in Mississippi, Espy and Biden both hold commanding leads, according to the poll released Tuesday. Espy leads 55-44 among early votes, while Biden leads 55-45. Mississippi does not have no excuse early voting, but according to data provided by the office of Secretary of State Michael Watson, a record number 146,000 Mississippians already have voted, using excuses allowed in state law to vote absentee. Turnout is expected to be well over one million voters.
The breakdown of the poll’s respondents is 62% white and 36% African American. Espy, trying to become Mississippi’s first elected Black senator, has said he needs the African American voter turnout to be more than 35% for him to have a chance to win. But, based on the poll results, Hyde-Smith is garnering 12% of the African American vote, though many question whether she will do that well with Black voters.
Espy has also said he needs 22% of the white vote — primarily college educated women. According to the poll, he is garnering 51% of the female vote to 46% for Hyde-Smith, but overall only 19% of white voters.
The poll also finds:
Support for adopting the flag proposed this summer by a legislatively created commission at 61% to 31%.
Support at 54% to 25% for removing a Jim Crow provision from the state Constitution requiring a candidate for statewide office to garner a majority of the vote and to win the most votes in a majority of the House districts to prevent the election from being thrown to the House to deicide.
The citizen-sponsored initiative to legalize medical marijuana was not polled, perhaps because of the complexity of the way the proposal is presented on the ballot. Voters can choose to adopt the citizen-sponsored initiative, a legislative alternative or neither.
Governor Tate Reeves is viewed as favorable by 34% of the respondents and negatively by 49%. The state’s senior U.S. senator, Roger Wicker, who is not on the ballot this year, is viewed favorably by 36% and unfavorably by 39%.
The Civiqs poll, commissioned by the left-leaning Daily Kos political blog, has a margin of error of 5.3%. Civiqs also released poll results from the swing states of Georgia and Pennsylvania on Tuesday. Biden was leading in both of those states by slim margins.
A 59-year-old voter in Ocean Springs told Mississippi Today she is planning to vote absentee this year by telling her local election officials she’ll be out of town on Election Day.
That will be a lie.
The voter, who asked not to be identified fearing retaliation from election officials, has an auto-immune disease that gives her a higher risk of complications if she were to contract COVID-19, and she doesn’t think her disease qualifies as a disability that would allow early voting.
“I’m very nervous about going into vote, and quite frankly, the only route left to me is to misrepresent the facts and vote absentee,” she said. “… It’s really concerning to me any time, but particularly in pandemic, that there are not allowances made for (high-risk) people in my position.”
Mississippi is the only state in the country that didn’t expand early voting during the global pandemic, and there are only a few specific reasons that someone can vote early. Fear of catching COVID-19 is not one of them, no matter a voter’s risk level.
Mississippi’s strict voting requirements and loose coronavirus precautions in many counties have concerned many Mississippians, and they wonder whether voting in person on Election Day could be dangerous as state health officials work to slow down another spike in cases.
Voting in person can be done safely, according to numerous public health officials, though there is slight risk. Most experts compare the risk to grocery shopping — tight, often-crowded spaces without a lot of airflow. Their assessment, though, factors in widespread masking. As of mid-October, about three-quarters of Mississippians still reported masking up, though masks will not be required to enter polling places. Some polling places are facing pressure to move booths outside to better protect voters.
Any enclosed, poorly ventilated space can be a breeding ground for COVID-19 spread — the smaller and more crowded the space, the easier a virus can spread from one person to another. Many polling places across the state are just these spaces. Waiting in long lines inside and failing to socially distance also increases risk.
But most spread is traced back to maskless close contact — within six feet — for more than 15 minutes where respiratory droplets are spread from an infected person through contact such as sneezing, coughing or loud vocalizations. The state health department says they’ve traced most cases in the state to just such indoor gatherings, like parties and after school activities.
After high-profile back and forths, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention formally advised that the virus can be spread through airborne transmission, where it can linger for short periods of time after an infected person has left the area. But experts still think most spread comes from direct droplet spread. Both of these spread scenarios suggest poll workers, rather than voters, are more susceptible to catching the virus, based on time spent interacting with voters. Poll workers will be provided masks, face shields and gloves, according to the state’s election safety guidelines.
Still, some voters are hesitant — especially those who don’t qualify for early voting but are higher risk for COVID-19 complications.
The Ocean Springs voter told Mississippi Today the unclear instructions for someone in her position, combined with the mask mandates coming and going, confuse her. But at the end of the day, she’s most concerned with casting her vote while protecting herself and others. Two Coast counties are back under mask mandates now after sharp spikes. Harrison and Jackson alone recorded an average 14% positivity rate — the percent of positives out of all tests — as of Oct. 17, some of the highest rates in the state.
Multiple other voters told Mississippi Today they had the same plans as the Ocean Springs woman — to say they’d be out of town while casting an absentee ballot.
“I feel like there is a trend to limit voter access, when we could be more creative in making access easier,” she said. “I wish I had a better alternative.”
Other voters are making plans now to head to the polls next week, but they say the absence of a statewide mask mandate and Mississippi’s legacy of suppressing the vote complicate the narrative.
“On that day, we’re probably going to have some people who are sick coming out,” said Germain McConnell, a 47-year-old educator in Columbus. “Some people may have COVID and still come out because they want to vote, especially if they get it late and they can’t do absentee… so really it’s a danger to actually go and vote on that day and not require that people are wearing masks.”
Anyone diagnosed with COVID-19 or under quarantine order can vote early, but early voting in person ends Oct. 31, and mail-in ballots are recommended to be requested at least weeks prior to the election. In reality, those recently diagnosed likely wouldn’t have any option but to vote day-of.
“It’s not even funny, but people are going to get out and exercise their right to vote anyway, which I’m happy about,” McConnell said. “But we are putting people’s lives in danger.”
He added that it’s not just the context of the pandemic that makes the danger of in-person voting hard to swallow — for many, the shadow of voter suppression still looms. “A lot of people lost their lives, lost jobs just battling and fighting for the right to vote,” he said. “If those individuals were that brave and willing to do so, then we can’t let fear of getting some disease keep us from voting and honoring their legacy either … but (the state) not making some allowances during a pandemic — that’s unconscionable and I really don’t understand it.”
He added: “I can’t say that it’s political — I think it may be some people who don’t have the compassion that they need to have or ignorance about this whole situation, but definitely it’s not right.”
Despite growing daily case numbers, Gov. Tate Reeves lifted the state’s mask mandate on Sept. 30, no longer requiring masks for in-person voting. As head of elections in the state, Secretary of State Michael Watson has encouraged masking at polls but will not require them.
On Oct. 19, Reeves reinstated a mask mandate for nine counties, ostensibly requiring masks at polling locations in those counties through Nov. 11. On Sept. 26, seven more counties were added.
Some cities, such as Jackson and Oxford, still have mask mandates in place, which voters say reassures them. But even in counties with a mandate, wearing a mask while voting will be a personal choice of the state’s voters, Reeves reiterated Monday.
This worries Dobbs, who has long advocated for widespread masking, including at the polls.
“The critical piece to this is going to be the critical mass of people wearing masks,” Dobbs said. “So if everybody in there isn’t wearing a mask but you are, then your level of protection is going to be a lot lower than if we collectively wear it. So if it could have been done, or it can be done, that there’s mandatory masks in polling places, I think that’s a fantastic idea.”
He reiterates that in-person voting is not altogether a very risky activity for COVID-19 exposure. But masks are a must for an overall protective effect, even if masking is not entirely universal, he says.
“So I do think it can be done pretty safely,” Dobbs said. “As far as the politics of how it happens, we know how coronavirus is spread, we know what to do to prevent it — you have fewer people in the room, you have stuff outside, you have masks on. So anything we can do to get to that would be beneficial, but I think obviously some of those things are off the table right now as we go into the election.”
The Mississippi State Health Department announced mid-October that they will supply free combination face mask-shields to elderly voters and those with certain pre-existing conditions at drive-thru and county health department testing locations, but the onus will be on voters to pick these up before heading to the polls. These combination masks offer the same baseline protective effect that healthcare workers use interacting with some COVID-19 patients, and tend to limit transmission.
Gov. Tate Reeves addresses COVID-19 for the state during his briefing Monday, October 19, 2020 at the Woolfolk Building.
Gov. Tate Reeves on Monday added seven counties to his mask-wearing order, bringing the total to 16 counties where he has reinstated the mandate as COVID-19 cases spike.
But Reeves said mask wearing will not be mandated for voting in the Nov. 3 election, even in those counties, as he believes mandating them would be an unconstitutional restriction. He noted protests earlier this year during the pandemic drew crowds larger than crowd size limits then in place, but were allowed as protected free speech.
“I do anticipate a vast majority of Mississippians will be wearing a mask (when they vote),” Reeves said. “… I think what you are going to find is that we will have a safe, secure election in Mississippi.”
The counties Reeves added to the mask mandate Monday are: Harrison, Madison, Marshall, Jones, Carroll, Leake and Benton.
Other counties will be added if they reach a threshold of more than 200 recent cases, or 500 cases per 100,000 residents over a two-week period, depending on the population size of the county.
Social gatherings in these counties will be limited to 10 people indoors and 50 outdoors, although Reeves has said this will not prevent high school football games, which are covered under separate orders.
Reeves’ latest executive orders also again require hospitals statewide to reserve 10% capacity for COVID-19 patients. If 10% capacity is not available, a hospital will have to delay elective procedures. Reeves said this worked during the summer peak to relieve pressure on hospitals.
Reeves on Sept. 30th lifted a statewide mask mandate — making Mississippi the first state to rescind such a mandate — that he had issued on Aug. 4. He also relaxed restrictions on social gatherings. Since then cases have risen.
During the span of the statewide mask mandate, the seven-day average for Mississippi cases plummeted, dropping by 54%.
Reeves had been hesitant to issue a statewide mask order in the summer, instead taking a county-by-county approach until state hospitals were becoming overloaded.
But Reeves has said he still prefers limited COVID-19 orders to “the heavy hand of government,” and said a mask mandate “is not a silver bullet.” He has said he believes people pay more attention to limited, regional mask orders based on case spikes.
On Monday, the state Health Department reported 447 new COVID-19 cases, eight new deaths and 683 hospitalizations. The state has had a total of 3,263 COVID-19 deaths reported.
Othia McMillian fills out her absentee ballot in mid-October at the Hinds County courthouse.
Mississippians continue to vote absentee in record numbers before the Nov. 3 general election, with more than 169,000 ballots requested, compared to less than 111,000 requested in the 2016 election.
Circuit clerks in several highly populated counties have told Mississippi Today that absentee voting amid the COVID-19 pandemic appears higher than ever for 2020, which features a presidential election and a U.S. Senate race between Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith and Democrat Mike Espy. Some clerks, including in populous Hinds and Harrison counties, have reported long lines outside their offices for people voting weeks before the election.
In 2016, nearly 103,000 absentee ballots were received in Mississippi’s election, and just over 101,000 were accepted. So far this election, nearly 146,000 absentees have been received by circuit clerks. High absentee voting typically portends heavy in-person turnout on Election Day.
Mississippi’s early voting laws are among the most restrictive in the nation, and it’s the only state not to provide all citizens an option to vote early rather than go to crowded precincts on Election Day during the pandemic. Only people who are going to be away from their home area on Election Day, those 65 and older, and people with disabilities are allowed to vote absentee, either in person or by mail.
A federal lawsuit filed against the Mississippi secretary of state this year and settled last week resulted in two new rules for this election.
Voters must receive correspondence from election officials about any problems with the signature verification on their absentee ballots, and the voter will have 10 days to correct it.
Also, election officials must provide curbside voting opportunities on Election Day for people experiencing COVID-19 symptoms or who have been exposed to the coronavirus.
Eric J. Shelton/Mississippi Today, Report For America
U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson speaks to the congregation at New Hope Baptist Church, Sunday, March 8, 2020.
U.S. Congressman Bennie Thompson, who has for nearly three decades been the lone representative of African Americans in the Blackest state in America, predicted that Democrat Mike Espy will win the U.S. Senate race on Nov. 3 after Black Mississippians turn out to vote in “tremendous” numbers.
Thompson, who made the remarks during an hour-long podcast conversation with Mississippi Today about race in politics, said he believes that Black Mississippi voters, galvanized by President Donald Trump’s “negative attitude toward people who don’t look like him,” will turn out in record or near-record numbers next week.
Espy, who is seeking to become Mississippi’s first Black U.S. senator elected by popular vote, faces incumbent Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith on Nov. 3.
“I think Trump has demonstrated who he is, and people want to get him out,” Thompson said. “I think Mike Espy will be the beneficiary of the anti-Trump Black vote in Mississippi. Now the other thing is I think there are some other groups that Trump has alienated. A lot of suburban, college-educated women. He has continuously marginalized their level of intelligence by what he says. They’re absolutely embarrassed.”
Mississippi Today: What do you make of this national moment (the reckoning on racism in politics)? I’ve heard from many activists that they’re happy to have the conversation now, but they’re frustrated it took so long for this to come to the forefront of national politics. Do you share that sentiment, and what do you make of this moment?
Rep. Bennie Thompson: As you know, one of the most difficult topics I’ve come in contact with in my life is a discussion about race. Race, across the board, has always been that discussion that never took place. And when it did, it was always a superficial discussion and not one that really burrowed down into the crux of why race is so controversial. I’ve lived in Mississippi my whole life. I was born at home simply because there was no hospital available for me to be born in. I was delivered by a midwife because there was no doctor available to perform or assist with the birth. Nonetheless, I also attended segregated public schools in the state of Mississippi, never having a new textbook my entire 12 years of public school. There were some very systemic yet overt acts that told me that you are being treated differently because of how you look.
As I fast-forward to where we are now, the George Floyd, Breonna Taylor murders really put a bright light on the issue of race and social justice in America. And so just like every other movement in this country, it takes something to shock the conscience of the country before you move in that direction. In the 60s, when we had white young people coming to the South advocating for integration in education, public accommodations and housing getting beat up just like the Black people who were coming, that shocked the conscience of this country. And when white religious leaders and others started getting killed because of that advocacy, it shocked this country even more. So the murder of George Floyd, the killing of Breonna Taylor that played out for the most part in full view of all of us, that reckoning is here.
So the question is: What do we do as Americans, and what do we do as Mississippians? The first thing we have to do is admit we have a problem. And then after that admission, you bring people together. The real challenge for us in this state is, for the most part, my white friends who want to do something will invite people who are not quote offensive in their discussion, they’re nice, and they fill a certain standard. So the question is, if you really want to get to the problem, you have to get to the people most impacted. That means the individuals who structurally, from a societal standpoint, are at the low end and find out how you got there, what problems precipitated why you’re there, and what it is that can be done to lift you off the bottom. Well that’s easier said than done, and that’s where the real discussion of race comes in.
You just mentioned something I want to touch on when you said the first thing we need to do is acknowledge we have a problem. It’s a big election year, of course. I think the timing of this reckoning comes at a profound time politically. So many politicians have embraced that acknowledgement and this greater conversation about how we can be better, and others haven’t. I would argue that not enough of that is happening in Mississippi. Do you agree with that? Are our politicians doing enough to have honest conversations about all this?
Well you know, no they’re not. I’ll take something real simple like healthcare. The majority of counties in our state are medically underserved. That means that we don’t have enough medical professionals to serve the population in those counties. So you would think that if something like healthcare would be a problem, then a remedy to that problem would be accepted. So what we did in Washington a few years ago was pass the Affordable Care Act. Now what it had was a Medicaid expansion component that gave a local decision to each state as to whether or not you wanted to participate in this program and be paid by the federal government for serving poor people. Well interesting to note is Mississippi is yet to accept that free money, even though it’s intended to address a documented problem in our state. And so you can only say the majority of those people who would be helped in this program first of all are poor, secondly from a racial standpoint are African American.
And so again, race trumps providing healthcare in this instance. There are five hospitals that have closed in this state. Several others are teetering on bankruptcy. You would think, “Why in the world wouldn’t a politician accept money that’s going to help address a documented problem?” Well, here we go again: Race. Many of those politicians would tell you, “I don’t see color, I’m a Christian.” Well the reality is, by the fact that you said you don’t really means you do. The fact that you’re a Christian and that you’re trying to gloss over the problem really signifies a bigger problem. As you know, the most segregated place in America is churches on Sunday because generally, people go to their own respective institutions. When you see it structurally, they are as segregated as any other institution, if not more. So even houses of worship are not exempt from this racial problem that we have in our state and America.
There might be some people listening to this interview right now thinking, “Why do they always have to make it all about race?” I’ve gotten many emails like that recently. Let me pose that question to you for anyone listening who thinks that: Why is race important to bring up?
I would say look at where white people were 50 years ago compared to where white people are now, and look at where Black people were 50 years ago to where Black people are now. We still, for the most part, have not closed the gap. Whites make more income, and therefore they’re able to have a better life. Black people at the beginning didn’t have an opportunity to make certain things because the law didn’t allow that to happen. You say, “Well that was the past.” How do I make up for that 50 years of discrimination by saying, “Oh, now we’re free and everybody can do what they want?” You don’t take into consideration what those 50 years, for the sake of this discussion, really have done to a group of people.
All of a sudden you can say, “I’m ready to join the Kentucky Derby, and anybody Black or white can put their mount in the Kentucky Derby and everything’s fine.” But the reality of the situation is I don’t have a thoroughbred, I got a jackass. So just because I can put my jackass in the Kentucky Derby doesn’t mean I have a chance at winning the derby because I’ve not had the benefit of raising a thoroughbred. So just giving me the opportunity to get in the race doesn’t address the systemic racism that has historically existed.
When I went to public school in Mississippi, we didn’t have running water in the schools when I started. We didn’t have a library. We didn’t have a cafeteria because we didn’t have running water. Well you say now we have it. Yes, but the years of racial discrimination has its impact, and that is a problem. And so it’s a real challenge for us to try to close the gap. And you can’t close the gap without some enhanced measures.
I’m one of those folks who sued Institutions of Higher Learning in the state because when I went for a graduate degree at Jackson State University, our library was virtually void of current books. So when I was given an assignment, I had to come across town to the Millsaps College library because they allowed Black people to come in the library, but also because the state-supported institutions that were Black did not have it. When I went to USM in Hattiesburg, the library had everything. It was like, “Gee, if you can’t learn with all these resources here, you’ve got a problem.” But I look back at Jackson State, my alma mater now, and you felt like my parents worked hard, they paid taxes, kept their nose clean, stayed out of trouble, yet still the system tried to give their son a second-class education. Separate and unequal was declared unconstitutional, but we had to go back to court to get that. So if you teach me on an inferior platform, then the expectations at the end of that teaching is that you have a less than acceptable student because you didn’t provide that student with a quality education because they were Black, not because of any other reasons. That’s our real problem right now.
Your start in politics, I believe, was inspired by activism. You were a member of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) while a student at Tougaloo College, organizing voter registration drives for African Americans throughout the Mississippi Delta.
I want to read the first two lines of your official House bio: “Born in a state with a unique history of racial inequality, Congressman Bennie G. Thompson draws inspiration from the legacies of Medgar Evers, Fannie Lou Hamer, Aaron Henry and Henry Kirksey. The Bolton, Mississippi native considers it an honor to walk the path Mississippi civil rights icons paved decades ago.”
A lot of your constituents would say you’re right in line with those icons. What does that mean to you?
Well you know I am fortunate to have lived and experienced those individuals you talked about, and basically homed my efforts in the past when they advocated. So what I want Mississippi to be is a Mississippi where my grandchildren will have to make a decision not based on economics or anything around race as to whether or not they want to stay. I’m the only person in my family who didn’t leave Mississippi and go north. My offspring left seeking a better way of life. They didn’t really want to leave home, but if they wanted things to be better, then they had to go. So every time they would come home, that discussion would always take place. You know, “I really didn’t want to leave, but I just couldn’t stand picking cotton, I couldn’t stand working for $2 a day. That’s not who I want to be.” My two brothers joined the military first because that was their way out, and then when they came back, they ended up in Michigan rather than coming back to Mississippi. So what I’ve tried to do is create a climate where young people, if they want to stay, there are some opportunities.
The best example I can tell you is that my cardiologist is a graduate of Tougaloo. He has a degree from Harvard Medical School, but he couldn’t go to University Medical Center here in Jackson because they didn’t allow Black students. Well guess what? University Medical Center instructor interviewed him (muffled audio). Now go figure that. Woodrow Wilson said, “If you want to make enemies, try to change things.” So I have structurally looked at our system of higher education. We’ve challenged how people get elected. We’ve challenged the Highway Patrol, which was all white. You have to do that, but then people label you this, that and the other…
Fannie Lou Hamer, Aaron Henry, Henry Kirksey and Medgar Evers were mentors for me, and people kind of see me in their footprints – but I haven’t endured what they had to endure or what they stood for when they were here on earth. One of the things I want to do is be the representative of the people. Somebody who’s never forgotten who sent me, and somebody who’s never forgotten what they sent me for. Whether it’s affordable healthcare, if it’s equality and equal education, economic stability for families, all those individuals stood for those things. But as important, leadership is taking positions that might not be a popular position at the time you take it. But nonetheless, it’s the correct decision. And so I think that is symbolic of what I’ve tried to address during my public, elected career.
You’ve won a lot of elections in Mississippi. I think it’s 13, is that right?
Well I’ve won 13 congressional elections. I’ve been blessed to have been elected since I was 20 years old. I’m 72 years old now, and I’ve never lost an election. You know, I’m a home boy. I go to the same Asbury United Methodist Church that I was baptized in. The things I enjoy, hunting and fishing with my friends, I still do. When I had a full head of hair, I went to the same barber shop. So you try to be mindful of the people who sent you. My congressional office in Jackson is located on Medgar Evers Boulevard. I could be in the federal building, but you know a lot of people who vote for Bennie Thompson are not comfortable going downtown Jackson. They’re not comfortable going into buildings where you get searched. Many of them can’t afford to pay for parking, so we make it convenient. Fortunately, all the time I’ve been on Medgar Evers Boulevard, I’ve never had a break-in because our office is part of the community. If you want a cup of coffee, you can come in and get it. If you want to use the bathroom, come in and use it. If you just need to come in and talk, people are there. And so we have taken that philosophy to the fullest extent: It doesn’t matter who you are, we will represent you. We take umbrage to the person walking the street just like a person wearing a suit.
Mississippi is the only state that didn’t expand early voting for all during the pandemic. On Sept. 30, Gov. Tate Reeves was the first governor in the nation to end a statewide mask mandate, which some people say will deter some voters who might not want to risk their health to vote. Secretary of State Michael Watson says voters won’t have to wear masks at polling places. In your mind, are these things voter suppression?
It is voter suppression, but it’s also dumb. Here we are in the middle of the pandemic, and health professionals say that social distancing and mask wearing is preferred in any enclosed space. Most voting precincts in this state, you have a number of people working inside them. You have people wanting to go inside to vote. So why would you risk your life just to vote, unless you felt that all precautions were being met? A simple precaution like a mask could be the encouragement necessary for a person to go and vote. The good part about it is I’ve talked to election officials throughout my district, and they’ve said they’ll let people vote outside the precinct if they won’t wear a mask inside the precinct. Some are saying they’ll let people vote curbside. But all that should not be, you know? We put CARES Act funds in the treasury of the state of Mississippi and said, “Buy the necessary PPE so if someone shows up without a mask, give them one.” That’s just one of a number of methods that would suppress voters turnout, at least in the minds of some voters because they just don’t feel comfortable. You know we didn’t change our traditional absentee ballot law. The traditional early voting, we don’t have that. We had an excellent chance to do it, but the only law we have in effect… it would’ve been so easy to say, “We’re in the middle of a pandemic. Why don’t we do what most other states did?” It could be up to a certain point, 30, 60 days. It could’ve been a mid-point somewhere where we all could’ve agreed. But they said no. We should be a better state than that, but unfortunately, we’re not.
All the laws we’re talking about here are passed at the state level. You couldn’t change them if you wanted to. Do you get frustrated by leaders in the state not doing these things in a situation like this?
You know, it’s one of those situations that you hope for the best. Rather than not support the opportunity for this state to be better, I’m still going to promote the opportunity. Hopefully, our state will turn the corner. But I never thought I’d see our state leaders embrace changing the state flag. They took the coward’s way out of trying to change it. Leadership should’ve said we’re going to change it because it’s the right thing to do. But when you don’t want your fingerprints on something, you appoint a commission. And that’s what they did.
But you know, the things I’ve seen happen in the last few years, all of a sudden counties were told you need to reduce your number of precincts because it cost too much to conduct elections. Well, you know, democracy is not cheap. We are a rural state. Why would you disadvantage people who perhaps don’t have their own mode of transportation, which makes it more difficult to vote? Or voter ID – in Mississippi, if you don’t have an ID, you have to go to the courthouse to apply for it. Then you have to wait until it comes back to pick it up. They don’t even send it to you. So that’s two trips that are hard to make. You have a number of senior citizens who have never driven cars or have the federal ID you need. So you’re inconveniencing those seniors who are mostly retired and living on a fixed income. It’s a poll tax in reverse because now I have to pay somebody to take me down to the courthouse in order to be qualified to vote.
So those things still come. You don’t have to interpret the Constitution anymore, tell how many jelly beans are in a jar or any of that. But the barriers still exist. As you know, I’ve been in a lot of elections. I’m not aware of any situation where somebody came and tried to cheat on Election Day by voting more than one time, or voting a name that wasn’t theirs. Those are things we haven’t experienced. So the history of this type operation is non-existent. So the reasons not to do it are just not well founded.
What do you sense about Black voter turnout this November?
I’m convinced it will be higher than it was in 2016. Donald Trump has been a motivating factor for what I perceive as a higher turnout. His negative attitude toward people who don’t look like him, his pronounced negativity on African Americans and Latinos, him talking negatively about people from Africa. All that has added fuel to the fire of people wanting to vote Donald Trump out. When I talk to people in various parts of the state, probably 9 out of 10 that I engage will say, “I’m going to vote against Donald Trump.” They don’t say they’re going to vote for Joe Biden. It’s just that Donald Trump has, for all the wrong reasons, really embarrassed us as Americans, but the fact that he picked on African Americans and others is just really a shame. And because of that, he’s going to have to bear the brunt of what I perceive as a tremendous African American turnout.
How do you handicap the Senate race with Espy and Hyde-Smith? Do you think Mike Espy will win?
I do. I think he’s going to win because he retooled his campaign from two years ago. He’s targeted the voters that he’s trying to touch, those infrequent voters are coming based on the targeting that went with it. We now have a seasoned campaign staff based on certain expertise they didn’t have two years ago. And he’s financed and raised the necessary money to have a credible campaign. The fact that he will have, I think, a tremendous turnout in the Black community for two or three reasons. One is the Trump factor. I think that in this state, African Americans will vote probably for Biden around 91-92%. That’s virtually unheard of. Barack Obama didn’t get those percentage numbers in this state. I think Trump has demonstrated who he is, and people want to get him out. I think Mike Espy will be the beneficiary of the anti-Trump Black vote in Mississippi. Now the other thing is I think there are some other groups that Trump has alienated. A lot of suburban, college-educated women. He has continuously marginalized their level of intelligence by what he says. They’re absolutely embarrassed. Then there are other people who just don’t like how (Trump) conducts himself. You are the chief elected official in the greatest country in the world, and for the most part, you’re acting like a tier-one dictator. We’re a better country than that. We’re a democracy. We’ve been taught that we can differ, but we should never forgo our standards nor the people we work with, and I think that’s been forgotten over the past four years.
You’ve helped Espy out a good bit. You’ve done some events together, you called Sen. Schumer for Espy, you set up some fundraisers for him at the convention. What else have you done for him?
I’m not the kind of person who wants to be the only Democratic elected official in Washington from this state. I helped elect Ronnie Shows when he was in Congress and others. But now it’s just me. That’s too big a burden on my shoulders as the lone Democrat. I need help. Mike Espy has the expertise and the love for this state to get it done. So I wholeheartedly want him to come so I can share this disproportionate burden that I’m bearing on behalf of Democratic voters in the state of Mississippi.
I know you and Espy know each other well. You took his seat in Congress when he was appointed to the Cabinet. You can’t work in politics for so long without knowing each other. Can you talk about what kind of senator he’d be for Mississippi?
Well I think he would be one that’s knowledgeable about a number of things that are important to our state. Our agricultural economy is absolutely one of the best. We need a senator who has the breadth and wisdom and knowledge. He’s been secretary of agriculture. That speaks for itself. He has legal training. He was born and raised in Yazoo City. His whole genre of experiences say that once he’s elected, he hits the ground running. He’s had experience in the House. But he goes to the Senate where he’ll be 1 of 100, rather than being like me in the House where you’re 1 in 435. And so he can elevate the standard, he can help break the glass ceiling of African American elected officials in this state. He would be unique. He was the first African American elected to the House since Reconstruction, and he’ll be the first African American elected to the Senate since Reconstruction. So we’ll have a twofer in Mike Espy.
So it sounds like he has your complete blessing?
Oh, absolutely. The next two weeks, we will be joining hands. Last week, we were in Greenville together doing events. We were in Cleveland doing an event. Like I said, I’ve done several events with various people, and they’ve all been very, very positive. There’s no daylight between Bennie Thompson and Mike Espy in this Nov. 3 election.
Were you as behind him two years ago as you are this year?
Oh yeah. You look at the numbers he got in the second district. He really needs to get those numbers this time, and I’m sure he will, if not a little higher because it’s a presidential year. But even with that, I have my campaign, he has his. Every time there’s an opportunity to work together, we do. We have a day planned on Election Day. There’ll be some areas of my district that I’ll tell him, “Mike, you don’t need to have your folk over here. We got your back. You need to go over to Meridian, or Tupelo or Biloxi or Hattiesburg, outside the second district.” We will free him up from a resource standpoint and a manpower standpoint to work in other parts of the state.
Every time Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith talks about race, she seemingly makes a gaffe. She doesn’t seem to be very sensitive to racial issues when she talks about them. Some would say she’s an outright racist. Do you think she’s a good representative of the state?
I think you are the sum total of your experiences. If your lot in life has been around a specific group of people, and you’ve been void of African Americans, then that’s who you are. And so while some say you might be prone to gaffes, that’s really who you are. Fortunately, that’s not Mississippi. You can’t talk about hanging and not understand the history of hangings or lynchings in this state and how that’s not, in the eyes of most Black people and a lot of white people, something you brag on. And so I think that sensitivity to issues of race with Cindy Hyde-Smith is just not there.
I guess you would say that sensitivity is an important thing for a U.S. senator from Mississippi to have?
Well when you have the highest percentage of African Americans in your state, you have to have a sensitivity to African Americans. You have to have relationships with the historically Black colleges. You have to have relationships with the leaders of the major religious denominations in the state. You know, the bishop of the United Methodist Church in Mississippi is an African American. The head of the National Baptist Convention, the largest Black religious denomination in America, is in Jackson, Mississippi. You have to have a relationship with those people because they’re important. But when you don’t have the relationship, either because you choose not to or for whatever reason you don’t, then that’s a failure on your part. Sometimes one’s weakness can become their strength, as long as they acknowledge that weakness. But if you try to defend or cover up that weakness, then you indeed have a problem.
Would you say that Cindy Hyde-Smith is a racist?
I’d say that she demonstrates the lack of sensitivity to issues around race. I don’t want to give her that title, but I would say if she asked me, “What can I do to understand more of the plight of African Americans in Mississippi,” I’d say, “Just go talk to them.” But you talk to them, not at them or down to them. You talk to them. I think from the beginning of this conversation: The most difficult conversation to have in this state and indeed this country is a discussion around race.
I’ve found my white contemporaries, they want to pick the Black person to talk to about race. If they talk to one, well he’s confrontational, so I want to talk to somebody who can work it out. Well that’s not for you to choose, you know what I’m saying? One of the real issues we have in this state is that when we are advocating for diversity and inclusion, a traditional white group will pick somebody Black who they already get along with rather than saying to the Black community, “Send me somebody who you’re comfortable with in representing your views.” In other words, the white group picks the Black person to come. They don’t say to the Black group, “Send my your representative.” That’s a faux pas that occurs in this state on almost a daily basis. Because it’s a certain comfort level that people are looking for, and it’s when that comfort level is not where it should be when they choose not to engage in that discussion.
So that’s why race is still a difficult conversation here in Mississippi. If you look at the board of directors at the banks that are chartered here in the state of Mississippi, a majority of them are all white. If you look at insurance companies and other corporations, majority white. Some that are public, some are private, but nonetheless, they have Black customers. The higher you go in the organization, the whiter it is. And that’s a reality. And so when you raise this question, inevitably somebody will come back, “Well, if I could find a qualified one…” What’s a qualified one? Do they have to be faster than a speeding bullet? Do they have to be able to leap buildings in a single bound? If you’re not looking for superman or superwoman, you ought to be able to find someone of color to include in your business if that’s what you want to do.
Mississippi has this long history of very influential lawmakers in Washington, particularly this outsize influence over federal money. Mississippi relies more on the federal dollar than any state in the nation. Cindy Hyde-Smith sits on appropriations. Do you think she’s pulling her weight for Mississippi? Is she able to be effective in that role?
Thad Cochran set a high bar. As you know, on his perch, he procured more resources for the state of Mississippi than any other senator in the country. So you have to temper that with the fact that for every dollar we send to Washington, we get three dollars back. So basically we are dependent on the largesse of the federal government. And if, for whatever reason, we have a person who doesn’t understand that, I don’t care how proud you are, you’re still a representative of a state that’s poor. And so you have to support Medicaid expansion that would bring billions of dollars to your state where the majority of your counties are underserved. But she’s not willing to promote that because it’s controversial. That’s not leadership. It doesn’t matter that the substantial number of those persons who would benefit from those dollars are African American. They’re still your citizens. The leadership issue on the flag — I mean, she should’ve been front and center on that. This is our state, and we’ve got to get out of this thing that for whatever reason, I can’t get involved in that. I wish her well, but the bar is real high for her to succeed. And unless she changes her trajectory, she will have a tough ticket in Washington.
Mississippi has never elected an African American statewide official, by popular vote at least. Is Mississippi ready, in your mind, to do that this November with Mike Espy?
I am an eternal optimist. If that chance presents itself on Nov. 3, I know of no better person to crack that ceiling than Mike Espy at this point in time.
Congressman, I’ve really enjoyed talking with you. It’s impossible to have a conversation about race in Mississippi politics without having that conversation with you. I appreciate not only your time, but your insights and your years of experience in dealing with this exact issue. Thank you so much for talking with me and us.
I appreciate you doing it, but I also appreciate the level of research that you all (at Mississippi Today) do on so many of the things that traditional people won’t write for whatever reason. I think that’s one of the reasons we’re still kind of sucking wind. It doesn’t matter if people like it or not. The question is, “Is it true?” And if it is, in fact, the truth, why shouldn’t we print it? I think that’s been one of our shortcomings as a state. For whatever reason, certain things were taboo like race – the notion that there’s certain things you just don’t print or say for fear of reprisal or being ostracized or whatever.
Congressman Bennie Thompson joins Mississippi Today Editor-in-Chief Adam Ganucheau in an hour-long discussion about why race is a difficult but important conversation to have in Mississippi. He also talks in detail about the U.S. Senate election between Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith and Democrat Mike Espy.
Mike Espy’s wholehearted embrace of Obama’s endorsement this week shreds any theory that he is abandoning the state’s Democratic voting base.
When former President Barack Obama recently endorsed Mike Espy’s Senate bid, the Espy campaign didn’t just welcome it — they blasted it on their social media channels and vowed to air it on African American radio stations across the state.
The response illustrates just how different a campaign Espy is running this year than past statewide Democratic candidates.
“I am honored to have the endorsement of the 44th president of the United States of America,” Espy said in a statement soon after the endorsement. “President Barack Obama governed with dignity and effectiveness. He is remembered and will continue to be remembered as a very good president.”
Just last year, the gubernatorial campaign of Democrat Jim Hood worked hard to keep secret a recorded phone call to about 280,000 selected households in which the nation’s first African American president urged people to vote for Hood.
The Hood campaign, which strategically rolled out the Obama robocall the day before the election, did not want all Mississippians to know of the endorsement.
It wasn’t that Hood dislikes Obama or was ashamed of his support. The Hood campaign, like many other statewide Democrats in the past, concluded that being tied to national members of their party negatively impacted their chances of winning in majority-Republican Mississippi.
Michael Rejebian, a Jackson-based political consultant who was a key member of the Hood campaign, said working simultaneously to enthuse the base of the Mississippi Democratic Party — overwhelmingly made up of Black voters — and to attract moderate white voters they believed they needed to win was like trying to “thread a needle.”
“We were threading that needle every single day, every decision we made,” Rejebian said on Mississippi Today’s The Other Side podcast shortly after the 2019 election. “We knew at the beginning of this campaign that our base was not enough to win. We had to have moderate white voters, and to do that you have to do certain things. You have to appeal to them in certain ways you might not appeal to base voters… At the end of the day, we could not get that needle through that hole.”
Rejebian continued: “There are some good people out there who wanted to work with us and wanted to do great things in Mississippi. It was hard for us to say no, we have to run our own race here because if we don’t they are going to take that and bash us over the head with it every single day.”
Espy indicated early on that he would not run from national Democrats nor many of their progressive ideas. The plan was to try to attract new voters who often had not voted in past elections because they believed Mississippi Democratic candidates were too conservative.
A few weeks ago, various people on the left and right theorized that Espy was abandoning that strategy when he aired a television commercial that highlighted how he crossed party lines to work with Republican President Ronald Reagan and Sen. Thad Cochran when he served as the state’s first African American congressman in the modern era.
Espy’s wholehearted embrace of Obama this week shreds that theory.
Espy never said he would agree with Barack Obama, Joe Biden or Kamala Harris on every issue, but he has made it clear that they are Democrats whom he supports.
Still, he repeats the refrain: “I will be an independent voice in the Senate — whatever is best for Mississippi.”
Whether Espy’s embrace of the national Democratic Party in his contest with Republican incumbent Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith is a winning recipe remains to be seen. Hyde-Smith is still the clear favorite.
But Espy has something no other statewide Democrat has had in recent elections: a 3-to-1 cash advantage. Still, many believe there is no way Hyde-Smith can lose because people who come to the polls to vote for President Donald Trump, who is still popular in the state, will not vote for Espy. It is reasonable to assume that there will not be many who vote for both Trump and Espy.
But one caveat that could give Espy a glimmer of hope is that in 2008, 44,000 more people voted for Republican presidential nominee John McCain than voted for Republican Roger Wicker, who was challenged for a vacant U.S. Senate seat by former Democratic Gov. Ronnie Musgrove. Overall, about 46,500 fewer people voted in the Senate election than in the presidential.
In the 2018 special election to replace long-time Sen. Cochran, Hyde-Smith defeated Espy by almost 66,000 votes. If there are enough people — ardent Trump supporters — who come to the polls to solely vote for him and skip voting in the Senate race, the 2020 U.S. Senate election could be surprisingly close.
The question, then, might become whether Espy’s strategy of seeking out the support of national Democrats was a good one.
W.C. Gorden, right, pictured with Marino Casem, left, and Rick Cleveland at a Mississippi Sports Hall of Fame function in 2013.
Today is a football Saturday, a good day to remember the life of W.C. Gorden, the College Football Hall of Fame coach who died Friday at the age of 90 in his adopted hometown of Jackson.
First thing’s first: W.C., whom I considered a good friend, was a terrific coach and a better person, always seeming on such an even, gentlemanly keel. He was a sports writer’s dream, a quote machine.
Rick Cleveland
W.C., who knew a thing or two about winning, once told me what “victory” meant to him.
“Victory makes your coffee sweeter and your food taste so much better,” he said. “It makes your jazz sound smoother, the sun shine brighter. It makes your wife look more beautiful. It even makes you sleep better and dream sweeter. Victory makes all the difference in the world.”
For most of his coaching life, Gorden’s coffee must have tasted mighty sweet and his wife was surely a knockout. Over 15 seasons at Jackson State’s head coach, his Tigers won 119 games, lost just 48 and tied 5. In the SWAC, they won 79 and lost 21.
Let’s put it this way: Deion Sanders would love to be so successful.
And here is the stat of this football week: During Gorden’s 15 seasons at the helm, Jackson State won eight conference championships. In the 28 seasons since, the Tigers have won three.
He won those championships in the SWAC’s heyday, when Eddie Robinson was the head coach at Grambling, when Marino Casem, The Godfather, was coaching at JSU’s arch-rival Alcorn and, for a while there, Archie Cooley, The Gunslinger, was at Mississippi Valley. Gorden, nicknamed The Jazzman for the music he dearly loved, just won.
As a coach he was very much the CEO type. He hired good coaches and kept them. He let them coach.
One was James “Big Daddy” Carson, the defensive coordinator who succeeded him. Indeed, Carson’s teams won two of the three SWAC championships the Tigers have won since Gorden stepped down.
In the 23 seasons since Carson retired, six different Jackson State coaches have won one title.
For a guy who won so often, Gorden proved to be a good loser as well.
His one losing season was in 1984 when the Tigers finished 4-5-1. That was the Mississippi football season that will be remembered for Alcorn and Mississippi Valley taking center stage. That was the season when Valley and Alcorn, both undefeated, played on a Sunday in JSU’s home stadium before a capacity crowd. That was the season when Alcorn and Valley went to the NCAA playoffs and JSU stayed home. But, as much as it must of hurt him inside, Gorden smiled through it and seemed to enjoy seeing SWAC football in the limelight. He even did the color commentary for the TV broadcast of that Valley-Alcorn game.
And then he won the next four SWAC championships.
Gorden was on the losing end of another huge day in Mississippi football history. That was in 1987 when Jackson State played at Southern Miss in the first game ever matching one of Mississippi’s HBCUs against one of the historically white universities.
A packed house at The Rock – including about half Jackson State fans – watched Southern Miss grind out a 17-7 victory in a game statistically dominated by Jackson State. Lewis Tillman, the great Jackson State running back, actually out-gained the entire Southern Miss team, which was quarterbacked by none other than Brett Favre.
Afterward, Gorden and then-USM coach Jim Carmody embraced at midfield, and after that Carmody said, “They are as fundamentally sound as anyone we play. They would beat a lot of teams we play.”
Said Gorden, simply, “I felt like we showed we belong.”
Fast forward to 2008 and South Bend, Ind., where Gorden was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame.
“I am so elated because this is the ultimate generosity given in recognition of my coaching career,” Gorden said. “Coaching football to me was like living the American dream.”
